July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Normally this would just be flame bait, but the drama queen is a true believer like pal fodase. May be a little stressful with part of the heard missing, eh.

Another thing PHX....because of my position and the fact that I really have not been hurt that bad by all of this...I am a moderate amongst the West.

You will get to hear from the "drama queens" when Silver rules, and you are not going to like what they say and ask for.

 

[Pi brat]

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2011/09/federal_judicial_emergencies.html

Interesting read. Yeah, I'm sure a ruling is right around the corner. No reason for Judge Silver to drop our case a few notches in priority, right Clear?

 

[nic4us]

If you remember I said the whole DJ was B.S to begin with, that there was not threat to the company. Many westies, not sure about you, assured me that there was.

How does that minus what you've taken work out?

The company is pussyfooting around the real issue. The real issue is that the company knows usapa helps them by forcing seperate ops and keeping pilot pay...and by extension, f/a pay at bargain basement rates. But how does the company distance itself from usapa when the West comes after both in a hybrid DFR. Answere, the company files the DJ to make evidence that they are trying to resolve the issues, and are not picking sides.

However, the company picked a side, the company picked the company's side, which in this case aligns with the goals of usapa. That is also collusion when the company knows damn good and well that usapa is in violation of its DFR, and relies on that failure of DFR to violate contractual commitments.

The payback comes with a system wide bump and flush while we retain separate contracts i.e you stay on LOA93 B scale. Now I know you will say we have to meet TA fleet mins and we will. But for starters, 6 330s will leave the east fleet along with 4 757s and likely the entire 190 fleet, and the West will exchange 10 320s. Newhires will be on the 190 and come with them to the West and get a better contract, although they will get kicked out of group II if they are holding it.

 

[nic4us]

http://www.americanp...mergencies.html

Interesting read. Yeah, I'm sure a ruling is right around the corner. No reason for Judge Silver to drop our case a few notches in priority, right Clear?

I think the 90 day rule Clear mentioned is extended to 120 days in a jurisdiction under the emergency clauses. It was on the local news a few weeks ago that the AZ district has been in emergency status since Silver moved up because of the Tucson shooting, and that emergency status was expiring and needed to be renewed. The AZ district has had substitute judges sitting in that they were losing, and trying to get the emergency status prolonged and get more substitute judges.

 

[Pi brat]

The payback comes with a system wide bump and flush while we retain separate contracts i.e you stay on LOA93 B scale. Now I know you will say we have to meet TA fleet mins and we will. But for starters, 6 330s will leave the east fleet along with 4 757s and likely the entire 190 fleet, and the West will exchange 10 320s. Newhires will be on the 190 and come with them to the West and get a better contract, although they will get kicked out of group II if they are holding it.

I don't usually like to make predictions, but I'm pretty confident in saying THAT will never happen. Remember, the transition agreement called for separate ops until a joint contract.

 

[EastUS1]

The payback comes with a system wide bump and flush while we retain separate contracts i.e you stay on LOA93 B scale. Now I know you will say we have to meet TA fleet mins and we will. But for starters, 6 330s will leave the east fleet along with 4 757s and likely the entire 190 fleet, and the West will exchange 10 320s. Newhires will be on the 190 and come with them to the West and get a better contract, although they will get kicked out of group II if they are holding it.

No doubt whatsoever....umm...hmm...along with your previously noted "billions in damages", again, no doubt?.....Sure thing. How could things even possibly go otherwise? 😉 Seriously folks......oh,...nevermind.

 

[nic4us]

I don't usually like to make predictions, but I'm pretty confident in saying THAT will never happen. Remember, the transition agreement called for separate ops until a joint contract.

We stay in separate ops until a joint contract.

We bump and flush reference the NIc but per separate ops seniority list, just the east's fleet is going to undergo drastic change.

The company is going to throw a fit, but they asked for judicial intervention in their business, and they are going to get it.

Valid serious question. Who made the decision to violate the TA, undercut West min block per the TA, and disproportionately furlough West pilots? I am pretty certain it was no person in the ranks of usapa, unless certain upper management are usapa members.

 

[traderjake]

You talk about the east stooping low, but call someone 9-piece. I have a very fitting nickname for you.

Would you like to know what luvthe9 has called me in PMs?

It's a lot worse than 9 piece.

 

[nic4us]

No doubt whatsoever....umm...hmm...along with your previously noted "billions in damages", again, no doubt?.....Sure thing. How could things even possibly go otherwise? 😉 Seriously folks......oh,...nevermind.

No doubt whatsoever,,,,"we will offer a cost neutral contract in exchange for labor peace, and scab the West jobs if we vote in usapa"

Sure thing,,,how could things possibly go otherwise.....oh..nevermind.

 

[Pi brat]

Valid serious question. Who made the decision to violate the TA, undercut West min block per the TA, and disproportionately furlough West pilots? I am pretty certain it was no person in the ranks of usapa, unless certain upper management are usapa members.

Management did. But in their POV, they weren't violating the T/A. Their interpretation of the block hour was different than the union's, the union followed the RLA, grieved it and won. The union and the company are now negotiating settlement and the west is back in compliance with min block hours and min fleet, per the T/A. The 757s and E190s flying were settled, both sides have shrunk to near their min fleet with replacement A/C coming on line. The company has complied with the T/A and has not shifted designated A/C east or west.

Is this bump and flush theory yours or something that is floating around over there? To be honest, it sounds more like something that would come from OTTER or fodase than you.

 

[Pi brat]

Would you like to know what luvthe9 has called me in PMs?

It's a lot worse than 9 piece.

If you feel the need to vent send it to me in a PM and I will keep if confidential.

 

[nic4us]

I don't usually like to make predictions, but I'm pretty confident in saying THAT will never happen. Remember, the transition agreement called for separate ops until a joint contract.

The other thing...you keep hiding behind the TA..yet both the company and usapa violate the TA at will.

TA calls for the Nic..no doubt about that.
TA calls for min block...company violates West min block.
TA specifically defines separate ops seniority and recall clauses...usapa and the company violate that when east pilots recalled West get furloughed from the West yet are allowed to transfer east and retain employment out of seniority.
TA stipulates the disposition of future aircraft, yet all 190's and the ATA 757s went east.
TA stipulates the makeup of the joint contract negotiating committee...how many West pilots on that committee??

Quit hiding behind the TA in order to violate the TA...you look as idiotic as the little lawyer explaining how to violate a union's DFR in order to fulfill the same DFR.

 

[EastUS1]

"....if we vote in usapa"

No intelligent concern was shown for that even being a remote possibility. Who can ever forget the west's classic: "You won't even get 200 cards!"...?

As for your "billions in damages", and this most recent fantasy that would require an airline to essentially be directly operated from a judge's bench..well...I'd just note that: "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy Horatio". The slim possibility that the entire earth doesn't revolve around the often astounding fantasies of the AOL cheerleaders should at least be considered.

 

[nic4us]

Management did. But in their POV, they weren't violating the T/A. Their interpretation of the block hour was different than the union's, the union followed the RLA, grieved it and won. The union and the company are now negotiating settlement and the west is back in compliance with min block hours and min fleet, per the T/A. The 757s and E190s flying were settled, both sides have shrunk to near their min fleet with replacement A/C coming on line. The company has complied with the T/A and has not shifted designated A/C east or west.

Is this bump and flush theory yours or something that is floating around over there? To be honest, it sounds more like something that would come from OTTER or fodase than you.

Really..the West is back in compliance....how do we know that? All West reps have been denied any and all access to block hour data since the grievance was filed over 3 years ago. Get this, usapa...the same union that failed to file a grievance over the change in criteria of when an airplane was out and in that favored the east operation and harmed the West pilots, who also failed to prosecute the DL grievance because in their opinion a West grievance is frivolous while complete disingenuous BS like the loa93 grievance have multi-millions wasted, yes that usapa who would no doubt be harmed by knowledge that West min block is below TA min, is keeping that data to itself.

The bump and flush is just my prediction of a possible ask from the West side if Silver rules in our favor.

The point is, if Silver rules in a manner favorable to the West, I predict usapa will appeal and the West will not just sit around waiting to go to the 9th. The West will take immediate action at the district level, and it will scare the daylights out of the company.

 

[nic4us]

No intelligent concern was shown for that even being a remote possibility. Who can ever forget the classic: "You won't even get 200 cards!"...?

As for your "billions in damages", and this most recent fantasy that would require an airline to essentially be directly operated from a judge's bench..well...I'd just note that: "There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy Horatio". The slim possibility that the entire earth doesn't revolve around the often astounding fantasies of the AOL cheerleaders should at least be considered.

Ever seen a judge operate an airline from the bench? oh, wait, I know the answere to this one...yes you have, at least 3 times in your case.

So have I, and the AMR folks are seeing it as we speak.


The company is voluntarily going to go down the bump and flush road to avoid what is behind the jury deliberations door that awaits otherwise. It ain't the judge the company fears, it is the jury.