July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Claxon]

You are correct the company did not ask about harm. But judge Silver certainly understands that there has been harm to the west pilots.

transcript Feb 9, 2011


This is what judge Silver said and the court is the ninth circuit.

So usapa had better hope that this is settled soon because the harm is real and mounting. usapa will never have enough money to pay for the damage but they could negotiate another form of compensation. B scale for east pilots. All of the upgrades to west pilots for the next 7 years. Bump and flush to reset the seat to their proper order. Who knows but the ninth circuit understands the west has been harmed, Judge Wake knows this and Judge silver knows it also.

The only people that don't seem to get it are the ones trying to steal an additional 40 seats a year because 2/3 of them are not good enough. You want them all.

She better talk to the 9th about the harm to the children of God Disciples of Franke the chosen western pilots. God help her should the children of Moses, dwellers of the valley of the sun be imaginarily harmed.



[7] Plaintiffs correctly note that certain West Pilots have
been furloughed, whereas they would still be working under
a single CBA implementing the Nicolau Award. It is, however,
at best, speculative that a single CBA incorporating the
Nicolau Award would be ratified if presented to the union’s
membership. ALPA had been unable to broker a compromise
between the two pilot groups, and the East Pilots had
expressed their intentions not to ratify a CBA containing the
Nicolau Award. Thus, even under the district court’s injunction
mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated.

 

[cleardirect]

Here is some more nice information they can mine along the Addington references, part and parcel of ADDINGTON. You can't pick and choose. These are some nice gems in the sands of Addington......


7] Plaintiffs correctly note that certain West Pilots have
been furloughed, whereas they would still be working under
a single CBA implementing the Nicolau Award. It is, however,
at best, speculative that a single CBA incorporating the
Nicolau Award would be ratified if presented to the union’s
membership. ALPA had been unable to broker a compromise
between the two pilot groups, and the East Pilots had
expressed their intentions not to ratify a CBA containing the
Nicolau Award. Thus, even under the district court’s injunction
mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated

Why do you even respond? You are to stupid to understand what you are doing.

This is my statement:

Tell you what. Go through the company DJ, injunction case, EDNY case and search for how many time the Addington case is referenced.You will find out that your statement is false. Addington is still referenced.

Do you think that you won Addington? The west case is only delayed (not ripe) if you had won we would not be talking about it.

The point was one of you east pilots made the statement that the Addington could never be refered to because of what the ninth said. What you quoted was the ninth. Research what has been say AFTER the ninth.

What is that old saying? It is better to say nothing and let people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and prove it. Keep you mouth shut, you don't understand what you are taking about.

 

[EastUS1]

So, this is like your wet dream, right? East finances all your aviation hopes and desires and picks up the tab for the training to "right size" the seats according to your wishes? And on top of that, we are kept on LOA 93 for ???

Anything else???

"Anything else???" I'd thought there was something included about freshly fluffed pillows, some milk and cookies, a hug and a comforting lullaby...but that may be just an assumption based on the overall tone 😉

 

[Pi brat]

Not even close. More like standing on a street corner offering BJ's for $2 then being offended when someone calls you a whore...but defend 9-piece all you like...

And look who popped up right on que...standing on a street corner...

Jim

Jim, you are no better than the worst offenders on this board. Worse actually. You throw the blanket on everyone that used to share a cockpit with you.

 

[nic4us]

I don't remember reading it that way, but let's go with that. So you agree that the company cannot use a combined seniority list until completion of pilot integration, of which only a joint contract is left. So, what are the damages? Give me the exact date of a joint ratified contract absent any east pilot intervention, because that is when they would start, right?

We will have to find a copy of J Mac's letter seeking separate section 6 negotiations for the West and use the date on that letter, or the date of the reply from Bradford denying the request.

Or we could just use the date east ALPA withdrew from negotiations, suspending talks....I think the TA says June 30 2006.

I am not talking about a joint contract implementation date...I am talking about stripping the West of representation and violating the West's rights per the TA.

So...the the exact date that the West would have entered separate ops, separate section 6 negotiations would have been June 30 2006.

6 years of damages can add up to a pretty big number....particularly when you factor in all the other harm usapa and the company have inflicted along the way.

 

[nic4us]

Your stupidity is appaling. The DEC action has ZERO to do with damages. Silver will make a ruling involving mostly Yes and NO answers and the question hasn't even been asked of Silver ....Have you been damaged and if so how much ??...what a moron. There... I said it.

NICDOA
NPJB.

Who is talking about the DJ...I am talking about DFRII......a hybrid DFR lawsuit where LCC and usapa are co-defendants.

What I am saying is IF Silver rules that indeed usapa is in violation of their DFR......done deal....game over....and immediate follow on lawsuit by AOL against the company for colluding with and facilitating usapa's DFR.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Who is talking about the DJ...I am talking about DFRII......a hybrid DFR lawsuit where LCC and usapa are co-defendants.

What I am saying is IF Silver rules that indeed usapa is in violation of their DFR......done deal....game over....and immediate follow on lawsuit by AOL against the company for colluding with and facilitating usapa's DFR.

MR. [ANDREW S.] JACOB: what’s most black and white to us is the Ninth

Circuit did not consider the hardship to the Airline. Now we’re seeing the

hardship to the Airline.

THE COURT: Well, on the other hand – well, if we go back, the hardship to the

Airline was there when they asked to be dismissed out of this case. They, for

whatever reasons, rather than counterclaiming for declaratory [relief], they

decided they didn’t want to be involved. But those facts, those circumstances

were there … So that was there when you litigated your case. If you wanted to

raise that as a grounds for ripeness for the West Pilots, why could you not have

done it then in this case? But you made a decision not to ground your ripeness in

that either, right?

MR. JACOB: That’s correct.

(Tr. 14:18 - 16:2). Thus, alleging, for the first time, facts that existed prior to a dismissal of

the previous action, may not cure jurisdictional defects.

Dozier v. Ford Motor Co., 702 F.2d

1189, 1192 (D.C. Cir. 1983);

Park Lake Resources, 378 F.3d at 1135-38. Moreover, the
(GOOD LUCK)!

 

[nic4us]

She better talk to the 9th about the harm to the children of God Disciples of Franke the chosen western pilots. God help her should the children of Moses, dwellers of the valley of the sun be imaginarily harmed.



[7] Plaintiffs correctly note that certain West Pilots have
been furloughed, whereas they would still be working under
a single CBA implementing the Nicolau Award. It is, however,
at best, speculative that a single CBA incorporating the
Nicolau Award would be ratified if presented to the union’s
membership. ALPA had been unable to broker a compromise
between the two pilot groups, and the East Pilots had
expressed their intentions not to ratify a CBA containing the
Nicolau Award. Thus, even under the district court’s injunction
mandating USAPA to pursue the Nicolau Award, it is
uncertain that the West Pilots’ preferred seniority system ever
would be effectuated.

Hi scab...

The 9th never addressed the question of whether the West could ratify a separate ops contract that was denied them, even though the TA specifically gives the details of how each side is entitled to its rights under the RLA and the pursuit of separate contracts.

Particularly under the circumstance of one side pulling out of negotiations, which the east did in 2007 when the Nic came out.

Pretty much historical fact now.

TA offers each side the right to pursue separate contracts...the West asked for and was denied its rights per the TA and the RLA. Then the discrimination began. The new scab union continuously violated West rights in order to pursue its mandate of DOH to steal West jobs. The actions of the scab union were abetted by the company who profited from usapa's actions by maintaining extremely low pilot labor cost.

The "children of God, dwellers of the valley of the sun" are going to offer one last olive branch...and if it is refused, we are going to beat the living daylights out of the east with it.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Hi scab

TA offers each side the right to pursue separate contracts...the West asked for and was denied its rights per the TA and the RLA. Then the discrimination began. The new scab union continuously violated West rights in order to pursue its mandate of DOH to steal West jobs. The actions of the scab union were abetted by the company who profited from usapa's actions by maintaining extremely low pilot labor cost.

The "children of God, dwellers of the valley of the sun" are going to offer one last olive branch...and if it is refused, we are going to beat the living daylights out of the east with it.

Here, however, co-defendants

explain that their allegations “show” only that “USAPA is motivated solely to favor the

interests of the East Pilots at the expense of the West Pilots.” (Doc. # 55 at 17). This is

insufficient to plead a valid claim. As recently explained by the Sixth Circuit, in the specific

context of seniority, “merely alleging that a union’s conduct favored one group over another

does not constitute a breach of the duty of fair representation.” 613 F.3d at 619-620.

9

Furthermore, co-defendants failed to respond to USAPA’s 12(B)(6) arguments directed

towards the cross-claim’s legally flawed damage-liability theory (doc. # 50 at 22) and the

pleading’s failure to allege a direct nexus between the alleged DFR breach and resultant
damages. (Doc. # 50 at 22-23). GOOD LUCK!

 

[EastUS1]

......done deal....game over.....

Yeeeeah.....and...umm....how many years have we all been hearing that now? Don't mind me...I'm sure you've got your predicted, and I quote; "billions" in fantasized "damages" headed your way any second now.......Rotsa' Ruck with all that.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Yeeeeah.....and...umm....how many years have we all been hearing that now?

AMEN!

 

[EastUS1]

AMEN!

Indeed. It just never ceases to amaze me, nor fail to amuse. You just couldn't make this type of thing up.

 

[luvthe9]

Who is talking about the DJ...I am talking about DFRII......a hybrid DFR lawsuit where LCC and usapa are co-defendants.

What I am saying is IF Silver rules that indeed usapa is in violation of their DFR......done deal....game over....and immediate follow on lawsuit by AOL against the company for colluding with and facilitating usapa's DFR.

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah, It's over!!!!!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Indeed. It just never ceases to amaze me, nor fail to amuse. You just couldn't make this type of thing up.

Amusement, !

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

We will have to find a copy of J Mac's letter seeking separate section 6 negotiations for the West and use the date on that letter, or the date of the reply from Bradford denying the request.

Or we could just use the date east ALPA withdrew from negotiations, suspending talks....I think the TA says June 30 2006.

I am not talking about a joint contract implementation date...I am talking about stripping the West of representation and violating the West's rights per the TA.

So...the the exact date that the West would have entered separate ops, separate section 6 negotiations would have been June 30 2006.

6 years of damages can add up to a pretty big number....particularly when you factor in all the other harm usapa and the company have inflicted along the way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=hM3jzlyNIpc