July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

LOL, Well..."Nyaah, Nyaah!" to you too! 😉 Be of good cheer though, since you still hold rightful claim to the title of "the longest worse pay and benefits ever" and a great many/most out east enjoyed much higher pay for many years than you may yet ever see.

Sigh!....Shall we all gather together at the ritual campfire now, sing a round or two of Kumbaya, and discuss the fantastic "unity" that could magically and instantly be achieved by accepting the nic insanity? 😉

Do you think that if you manage to ignore arbitration and force DOH that unity will be had?

Usapa has had 4 years to rally the east and west. They have done nothing but drive a wedge between the two groups. So I am not looking for unity. I am looking for the Nicolau to be shoved up your collective sixes and you guys and cry quit or accept it. Your choice.

 

[traderjake]

I was on there but couldn't stand being nauseated everyday. How many post on there on a regular basis? A good sample of our group? Why are they not doing anything about it?

Pilotaction was more nauseating than this board?

We're still in the minority.

 

[Pi brat]

Nothing new, just a point of clarification that the west group would not in fact prefer to have USAPA continue a delay rather than getting on with a JCBA, even if that contract didn't contain the NIC. Seems to me that west pilots want this wrapped up, with or without a definitive ruling from the court which would put an end to all legal challenges.

All USAPA has ever done is move the process backwards to get the pilots further away from a negotiated contract; it never makes any meaningful progress towards a JCBA and they leap at every opportunity to cause a further delay to obtaining a final resolution. West pilots have little to fear in letting a court rule on the merits of their claim that USAPA would be in violation of it's DFR if the NIC isn't implemented. On the contrary, the obligation to implement the NIC pursuant to its DFR is the one question USAPA runs from at every turn. Any guesses why?

BS. The west has fought the east at every turn and made Everything about the Nic. If you remember I advocated helping us get a contract so you could then sue. No way the west said. All water under the bridge. Someone is going to settle this for us....eventually.

 

[traderjake]

Someone is going to settle this for us....

Isn't that what we hired Nicolau to do?

 

[cleardirect]

Isn't that what we hired Nicolau to do?

Yep. And when the east does not like that answer they will ask another court and another court.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

The court system is a great place to hide out in broad daylight.

 

[Metroyet]

I noticed Doug Parker had the 3 leaders of American's Labor unions with him at the press corps speech today...did USAPA even go so much as a text message?

 

[mrbreeze]

Isn't that what we hired Nicolau to do?

Negative.....

That is the route that ALPA took after loss of confidence in the termination of the DB Retirement fund.....we were promised a vote in the action, but betrayed by ALPA in the 11th hour. We, the pilots at USAirways were never in support of ALPA after this point.

Surely, trader, you can understand the betrayal at this point to the troops who had supported ALPA over the years. Then to be promised a vote on the future of our retierment and betrayed in the 11th hour.....All of your talk about loyalty in your word...where is that in this case?

Not only that, but RSA (Retirement Systems of Alabama) was running the company at this point. Now, these guys are professional retirement people.....and to have them tell us that the only option was to terminate the DB plan.....no freeze...no negotiations....well, that's just BULLSHIT! Could it be that they had the chance to recoup the $350 million that they had invested in the company be a factor? damn right!!! They decided to abandon their investment and take their cash out of the pilot's DB plan via wishy-washy bankruptcy rules.

I never in my life have asked NIC for anything, since ALPA betrayed me....You should feel the same.

That!!!! Trader....that! Is where betrayal began for the USAirways pilots....not with the NIC award!! And that, my friend is why East pilots are willing to live on LOA 93 until they die.

Loyalty....there it is. I hope you can get something outta this.

Really, guys.....after paying ALPA dues for 15-20 yrs, wouldn't you expect more for your money in the area of loyalty and protection?



breeze

 

[EastUS1]

Do you think that if you manage to ignore arbitration and force DOH that unity will be had?

So I am not looking for unity. I am looking for the Nicolau to be shoved up your collective sixes and you guys and cry quit or accept it. Your choice.

1) Of course not. I believe any even remote possibility for group cohension between west and east was forever destroyed once alpa layed the nic egg.

2) I rest my case 😉

 

[EastUS1]

Negative.....

That is the route that ALPA took after loss of confidence in the termination of the DB Retirement fund.....we were promised a vote in the action, but betrayed by ALPA in the 11th hour. We, the pilots at USAirways were never in support of ALPA after this point.

Surely, trader, you can understand the betrayal at this point to the troops who had supported ALPA over the years. Then to be promised a vote on the future of our retierment and betrayed in the 11th hour.....All of your talk about loyalty in your word...where is that in this case?

I never in my life have asked NIC for anything, since ALPA betrayed me....You should feel the same.

That!!!! Trader....that! Is where betrayal began for the USAirways pilots....not with the NIC award!!

Loyalty....there it is. I hope you can get something outta this.

Really, guys.....after paying ALPA dues for 15-20 yrs, wouldn't you expect more for your money in the area of loyalty and protection?

"Really, guys.....after paying ALPA dues for 15-20 yrs, wouldn't you expect more for your money in the area of loyalty and protection?"

Perfectly expressed sir!

 

[EastUS1]

Yep. And when the east does not like that answer they will ask another court and another court.

Was it not the west who feebly attempted to get themselves heard after the ninth's ruling, all the way up to the level of the Supreme Court....?

Such is how the legal system works. You obviously want to sue everybody to try and get your way ("I am looking for the Nicolau to be shoved up your collective sixes and you guys and cry quit or accept it"), and I've never personally seen ANY group more in love with lawyers and litigation than yours. So...Well...What's your point?

 

[A320 Driver]

Not only that, but RSA (Retirement Systems of Alabama) was running the company at this point. Now, these guys are professional retirement people.....and to have them tell us that the only option was to terminate the DB plan.....no freeze...no negotiations....well, that's just BULLSHIT!
breeze

After ERISA kicked in the September prior to this vote, termination WAS the only option. That's the rules. Of course the MEC was advised of this 3 months prior to that in June...and did NOTHING.

Driver...

 

[EastUS1]

BS. The west has fought the east at every turn and made Everything about the Nic. If you remember I advocated helping us get a contract so you could then sue. No way the west said. All water under the bridge. Someone is going to settle this for us....eventually.

Indeed.

 

[EastUS1]

After ERISA kicked in the September prior to this vote, termination WAS the only option. That's the rules. Of course the MEC was advised of this 3 months prior to that in June...and did NOTHING.

Driver...

"...and did NOTHING." Yes. Yet more of that brilliant "adult leadership" in action that alpa-philes so love to pretend ever existed at any level anywhere.

 

[mrbreeze]

After ERISA kicked in the September prior to this vote, termination WAS the only option. That's the rules. Of course the MEC was advised of this 3 months prior to that in June...and did NOTHING.

Driver...

thx for the clearification.

Bottom line.....ALPA did nothing, not only then, but throughout the whole process, thus, their asses were thrown out. And this had nothing to do with the NIC.

Now, I ask you West guys......after paying ALPA dues for 15-20 yrs, wouldn't you expect more for your years of investment in the professional union that was trusted to protect your professional career, wouldn't you expect ALPA to step up to the plate and protect you....especially, when promised a vote on the future of your retirement plan? And when they betrayed you......you would trust anything......that's ANYTHING.....that they did in the future?

breeze