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July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Where is the MOU GARY promised?, and besides where is our 3% grievance at? Wasn't DAVE C suppose to call KASHER? Gary should do us the same favor BATES did his group!

Yeah, and we'll put McKee in there. That will fix everything...right?

I mean, DAMN!!!! How much BS is enough. We've been floundering for years taking the "hard line". It got us nowhere. How about we get a look at what is being done before we string em up???

Driver...
 
The baby doesn't get split in an arbitration, the arbitrator does what he thinks is fair.

Well, if it was so fair, why did it cause such a firestorm across so many boundaries to the point that even the union's national president called it "problematic"?

It is what it is. It was punitive. A reward for stupidity, I'll give you that. But don't ever call it "fair". The fairness of the NIC has never been put on trial. It should be, but it won't.

The only way this will ever end is if the NIC is set aside or insisted on by a federal court. The sooner the better. Anything is better than where we are.

Driver...
 
Where is the MOU GARY promised?, and besides where is our 3% grievance at? Wasn't DAVE C suppose to call KASHER? Gary should do us the same favor BATES did his group!

Your 3% grievance???

give it a rest already...it is LOA93 for the east until usapa starts representing all LCC pilots and obtains a Nic inclusive contract.

Pretty simple logic tree.
 
Where is the MOU GARY promised?, and besides where is our 3% grievance at? Wasn't DAVE C suppose to call KASHER? Gary should do us the same favor BATES did his group!
The MOU is finished and will be out in a week or so, Hummel and his compass corruption fools will attempt to shut half the pilot group out and do what they want, it won't be good. Just wait to you see the crap these guys are going to pull soon it will make you sick.
 
Well, if it was so fair, why did it cause such a firestorm across so many boundaries to the point that even the union's national president called it "problematic"?

It is what it is. It was punitive. A reward for stupidity, I'll give you that. But don't ever call it "fair". The fairness of the NIC has never been put on trial. It should be, but it won't.

The only way this will ever end is if the NIC is set aside or insisted on by a federal court. The sooner the better. Anything is better than where we are.

Driver...

The Nic is not punitive.

Prater saying the Nic is problematic is not making a judgement about the fairness of the Nic, just that the east was going to cause a problem, and apparently he was right.

If we wait for the federal court system to tell usapa they have to use the Nic, it is going to take some more time. It is possible, I suppose that in the interest of labor peace and the well being of the other 30,000 employees at LCC, a federal judge might just vacate the Nic, but I highly doubt it for the simple reason of well then what list would be used?
 
Yeah, and we'll put McKee in there. That will fix everything...right?
Not everything but it would be a good start, don't be suprised when all our widebodies slowly disappear and you see those shiney 76's and 77's in PHL.
 
Well, if it was so fair, why did it cause such a firestorm across so many boundaries to the point that even the union's national president called it "problematic"?
The problem was the unreal expectations of the East and ALPA losing millions in dues money, not the fairness of the award.

The award used the same basic methodology as the Shuttle award, where was the firestorm then?

The Nothwest Delta and Frontier Republic arbitrations later used the same methodology.
 
Well, if it was so fair, why did it cause such a firestorm across so many boundaries to the point that even the union's national president called it "problematic"?

It is what it is. It was punitive. A reward for stupidity, I'll give you that. But don't ever call it "fair". The fairness of the NIC has never been put on trial. It should be, but it won't.



Driver...

The Nic caused a firestorm because the east pilots had unreasonable expectations. Prater called it "problematic" because he knew how the east would react and it indeed was problematic for alpa, fearing the east would toss them if it didn't get its way. He never called it unfair.

Please tell me how it is punitive when the majority of the pilots maintained their seniority relative to their position on their respective lists - with the clear exception of the top 10% of the west list. Are you referring to those west pilots? I would agree with you there. They were punished severely.

Kindly explain how Nic was punitive to the east pilot group. Pilots who had absolutely no hope of any seniority without AWA's involvement. They got to keep what they had yet you implied they were somehow punished.

Please explain how the Nic was a reward for stupidity. I will admit that the east merger committee was indeed stupid for not negotiating in good faith. They were clearly mentally retarted for not taking Nicolau's last chance advice at a time when he was not obligated to give it. Their actions were not "rewarded". You got less than you might have as a result of that stupidity but that is not the west's problem.

I'm glad to see that at least one east pilot is willing to move on when the judge speaks. I am just surprised that your group has not turned on you yet for publicly stating so.
 
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If we wait for the federal court system to tell usapa they have to use the Nic, it is going to take some more time.
They won't and the NIC is not an issue, worry about scope instead!!!!!
 
Seroiously. DOH was ask.

The rest was posturing and chest-pounding for the benefit of a tired, frustrated, and demoralized group who'd sacrificed everything. You know the saying...a most dangerous man is the one who has nothing left to lose. The psychology of the ask was to defuse a volital socio-political situation.

After career, family and economic devistation, there would have been political bloodshed if a memember had resigned that last thread of perceived control of his life. No one would dare risk personal or political suicide to try and seperate the emotional from the logic.

The arbitration was a safety valve, an out. The only venue where the baby could be equally split with everyone equally harmed. It's the only irresitable force available to move an immovable object.

No party belived he would get the ask. That's the way it works. It's naive to believe differently. Arbitration is an appeasement to assuage ego. It's a forum of reason where evereone is necessarily harmed. It's a forum where leaders are spared political suicide. It's where the arbitrator becomes the demon when the baby is split.

Only you guys seem to make things worse for yourselves and keep pissing yourselves off even more.

Time to grow some balls.

Maybe Hummel has finally done it with his MOU cramdown.
 
Yeah, and we'll put McKee in there. That will fix everything...right?

I mean, DAMN!!!! How much BS is enough. We've been floundering for years taking the "hard line". It got us nowhere. How about we get a look at what is being done before we string em up???

Driver...
What has changed?, except begging by GARY, nothing, is getting done! The great SCOPE give away probably!
 
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