June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Beancounter]

After the Nicolau award came out if you east guys had not gone crying to mommy and whined how unfair life was do you think Prater or ALPA would have just stepped in without being asked? That they would have trying to "fix" a problem that did not exist?

If no one complained about a furloughed guy being S/T ALPA national probably did not even know about it. After all the local are suppose to run their own show and follow the rules. ALPA national is there to make sure they are enforced. Just like the cops if no one reports the crime they don't know about it and don't do anything about it.

But this is all moot. The MDA guys were furloughed it has been proven. You east guys have trouble following the rules. There is nothing more to discuss.

C'mon Clear, don't you know if this merger happens it's going to be the GRANDE do over. Do over the west/east, do over TWA/AA, do over ?????/MDA. Anyone have any parking ticket objections they lost in court? Let's throw those in too and see if there is any way we can #%#% this deal up. Because we all know, it's best to be really senior, with a crappy contract, working for an airline that is going to go out of business. Who could possibly want a good contract working for a stable airline? Rant over.

Bean

 

[nic4us]

Since you don't want a reply I just have to answer. Same question you asked me....Why is it that your "colleagues" deserve or are entitled what is my "colleagues"? And thank you for leaving all the deprecating remarks out of your post.

My colleagues are not entitled to what belongs to your colleagues, and they never sought as much.

Nicolau delivered and equitable distribution of the positions for a post merger LCC. usapa seeks to redistribute those positions to favor east pilots at West pilots expense.

My point is that your support of usapa is a direct attack of my position within the post merger corporation. My colleagues and I are not trying to take from anybody, yet your colleagues are trying every trick in the book to take our awarded positions.

If you can not see this simple fact there is no point in continuing a dialog, hence my reason for not seeking your replies.

 

[nic4us]

C'mon Clear, don't you know if this merger happens it's going to be the GRANDE do over. Do over the west/east, do over TWA/AA, do over ?????/MDA. Anyone have any parking ticket objections they lost in court? Let's throw those in too and see if there is any way we can #%#% this deal up. Because we all know, it's best to be really senior, with a crappy contract, working for an airline that is going to go out of business. Who could possibly want a good contract working for a stable airline? Rant over.

Bean

Bean, the reason you are too cordial to some of these east posters is because you fail to get what they want.

They do not want to be senior at a failing airline on a crappy contract. They already have plenty of experience at that. They want to be senior at the stable airline with the good contract, and that means taking your position away from you and giving it to an east pilot.

At the onset of the merger, prior to Nic, prior to usapa, Theur gave his opinion in a USA Today story. When I find the article I will quote it and you can see how eerily preminescent it was and how his scab mentality found its way into the founding of usapa. He basically said, he had been screwed in mergers before and this time it was his turn to jumpstart his crappy career.

 

[nic4us]

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=4418517&page=1

Not the original usatoday story,,so it does not have all the quotes, just the how his career was hurt twice by mergers,,not the how he was going to get it back in the LCC deal.

 

[Beancounter]

http://abcnews.go.co...=4418517&page=1

Not the original usatoday story,,so it does not have all the quotes, just the how his career was hurt twice by mergers,,not the how he was going to get it back in the LCC deal.

Yes, I did not see the part you mentioned. I of course read this:

"US Airways CEO Doug Parker, who presided over the most recent airline merger, says he had to act without pilots' input. When Parker's America West merged with US Airways in 2005, US Airways was in Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization a second time and failing fast. Had he waited, he says, US Airways would have liquidated, leaving 30,000 people jobless."

I don't think it means that the US pilots should be lower in seniority integration, because we/AWA needed US too. I just am always perplexed why so many east pilots refuse to accept the fact they were going to liquidate without the merger.

Bean

 

[EastUS1]

Bean, the reason you are too cordial to some of these east posters is because you fail to get what they want.

Sigh!....Is it really "normal" to assume full knowlege of the contents of other people's minds? Perhaps he's being "too cordial" due to his seeing little purpose to, or gain to be had, from a continuous barrage of infantile insults....?

 

[Beancounter]

Bean, the reason you are too cordial to some of these east posters is because you fail to get what they want.

They do not want to be senior at a failing airline on a crappy contract. They already have plenty of experience at that. They want to be senior at the stable airline with the good contract, and that means taking your position away from you and giving it to an east pilot.

At the onset of the merger, prior to Nic, prior to usapa, Theur gave his opinion in a USA Today story. When I find the article I will quote it and you can see how eerily preminescent it was and how his scab mentality found its way into the founding of usapa. He basically said, he had been screwed in mergers before and this time it was his turn to jumpstart his crappy career.

I don't think all east pilots can be grouped together. I think there are intelligent professional pilots on the east side. That being said, I question the judgment of some on the east that even after the truth came to light of what the Cleary clan were up to, still supported him and his minions.

I was just trying to point out that if you try and grab the whole cake instead of sharing, you may end up with nothing.

Bean

 

[Beancounter]

Sigh!....Is it really "normal" to assume full knowlege of the contents of other people's minds? Perhaps he's being "too cordial" due to his seeing little purpose to, or gain to be had, from a continuous barrage of infantile insults....?

Yes, I don't know or fully understand what goes on east of the Mississippi, for that matter some of what goes on out west makes me go, "what the $%#&?"

I try and be cordial, sometimes I fail miserably. I recently insulted some friends on a message board from another airline, without meaning to. Lotso explaining.

Bean

 

[cleardirect]

http://abcnews.go.co...=4418517&page=1

Not the original usatoday story,,so it does not have all the quotes, just the how his career was hurt twice by mergers,,not the how he was going to get it back in the LCC deal.

Two very interesting paragraphs.
First I guess this puts to rest the whole whining about there has never been so many years lost before. 17 years totally disregarded. Whaaaa! It has happened before and they sucked it up and the list stood.

FedEx fdx Capt. David Webb of Memphis remembers when cargo carrier Federal Express merged with Flying Tigers in 1989 to form what is now FedEx. When an arbitrator blended the seniority lists of the two pilot groups, Webb lost 15 years' seniority overnight. He now captains an Airbus A300 and is chief of the pilots' union, the Air Line Pilots Association.

Anybody want to argue that US Airways was not going to close the doors and the east really bought the west?

US Airways CEO Doug Parker, who presided over the most recent airline merger, says he had to act without pilots' input. When Parker's America West merged with US Airways in 2005, US Airways was in Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization a second time and failing fast. Had he waited, he says, US Airways would have liquidated, leaving 30,000 people jobless.

If the east had enough money to buy the west why did they not have enough money to survive on it's own? What could the little old PHX domicile bring that would have had value and saved US Airways?

 

[nic4us]

Sigh!....Is it really "normal" to assume full knowlege of the contents of other people's minds? Perhaps he's being "too cordial" due to his seeing little purpose to, or gain to be had, from a continuous barrage of infantile insults....?

Note I said "some of these east posters"??

I don't pretend to read minds, I can only read the posts. "Some" east posters are deserving of respectful replies. "Some" other east posters,Claxon comes to mind, get what they dish out.

Here is another for instance. I don't want to go to the old thread and quote it, but Pheonix accused me of calling ALL east pilots scabs. That was never my intent when throwing around the scab tittle, and I never bunched ALL east pilots in that category. You may not see it, Phoenix obviously did not, but I only called either specific individuals scabs, or used the scab title as a desricptor of usapa founders and supporters seeking to redistribute seniority to their favor.

So am I reading Phoenix's mind from his post? Logical deduction makes me concluded that Phoenix's reasoning goes like this, Nic4us calls usapa supporters scabs, ALL east pilots are usapa supprters, therefore, Nic4us calls ALL east pilots scabs. A completely false syllogism, because ALL east pilots are not usapa supporters and/or do not support taking from the West to benefit themselves, but that is the only way Phoenix would think I called ALL east pilots scabs.

As to the infantile insults,,,,that is 80% of the laughs from reading this thread, please don't anybody stop.

 

[nic4us]

I don't think all east pilots can be grouped together.

Bean

I do not think that either, however, you most certainly can make groups of subsets.

For instance, any east pilot that supported the prosecution of the RICO suit as a shotgun, catchall, go for the juggular against the West and AWAPPA, 100s of John Does to be named, is a first class scab POS of the highest order.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I do not think that either, however, you most certainly can make groups of subsets.

For instance, any east pilot that supported the prosecution of the RICO suit as a shotgun, catchall, go for the juggular against the West and AWAPPA, 100s of John Does to be named, is a first class scab POS of the highest order.

Many east pilots supported some sort of legal action to stop the attempts to disrupt communications, vulgar and profane emails and text messages which were targeted at USAPA officers, reps and committee members but were often inadvertently intercepted by family members. I personally read a couple that were sent to F/O's I was working with who served on committees. The alleged mailing of hazmat was never proven, and it has been suggested that the perpetrators could have even been east - nevertheless, the incidents happened during a volatile period and at a fragile stage of the new union. Most east pilots wanted the nonsense to stop.

The RICO surprised many. When the activity ceased but the lawsuit continued, many of us wanted it dropped and communicated the same to our leadership and reps. It went on for too long and caused considerable damage, financial and emotional, to at least a few in the west who were largely innocent.

An apology from Hummel would cost nothing, do nothing to weaken our position on the seniority dispute and demonstrate that he is serious about guiding this pilot group, east and west, through the treacherous waters ahead.

So in response to your post, I supported some sort of action and you know what my rationale was. If you still feel I'm a FCSPOSOTHO then so be it. Should we resume our discussion of the safety aspects of sharing the same cockpit?

 

[traderjake]

An apology from Hummel would cost nothing, do nothing to weaken our position on the seniority dispute and demonstrate that he is serious about guiding this pilot group, east and west, through the treacherous waters ahead

An apology, how generous of you.

The West is having to spend their own time and money to keep USAPA from stealing what they are legally and ethically entittled to. USAPA is using their own dues money against them.

I'd say they have the right to be p*ssed.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Other than the people hurt by it, only a few people know what that RICO suit was, the designers and purveyors of it. I hope their mothers at least love them. The rest of the folks just have varying degrees of superficial and incomplete understanding of it.

 

[Barrister]

Bean, the reason you are too cordial to some of these east posters is because you fail to get what they want.

They do not want to be senior at a failing airline on a crappy contract. They already have plenty of experience at that. They want to be senior at the stable airline with the good contract, and that means taking your position away from you and giving it to an east pilot.

At the onset of the merger, prior to Nic, prior to usapa, Theur gave his opinion in a USA Today story. When I find the article I will quote it and you can see how eerily preminescent it was and how his scab mentality found its way into the founding of usapa. He basically said, he had been screwed in mergers before and this time it was his turn to jumpstart his crappy career.

Well, as you can see someone posted the article and you sir are a complete discredited jackass.....as usual......sorry....misleading, misquoting jackass.

NICDOA
NPJB