June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[FL430]

So USAPA is going to submit two lists?

Good luck to that one.

Good question. What do you think the transition agreement (TA) will look like that is signed by USAPA, APA, and LCC?

Even if USAPA bargains with APA with a NIC list could it not be modified to include adjustments for LOS prior to going to MB arbitration?

Who knows what we will end up with - we are all just along for the ride.

 

[FL430]

Did you give up on the big words and just settle for bolding everything???

You post here more than most and definitely more than me so try harder to keep up...

Jim

PS - are you turning into MM's clone, putting your middle name in the middle of your posts???

I use single syllable words and bolding just for you so you can understand.

16035 posts? Can you even count? And you say I post more, pot meet kettle!

 

[BoeingBoy]

And you say I post more, pot meet kettle!

Sorry FL - my mistake. Since they changed the software the name of the poster is off the top of the screen when I go to new posts and I thought it was EastUS that posted that. My apologies.

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

Sorry FL - my mistake. Since they changed the software the name of the poster is off the top of the screen when I go to new posts and I thought it was EastUS that posted that. My apologies.

Hmmm...Situational Awareness = Unsat 😉

 

[FL430]

Sorry FL - my mistake. Since they changed the software the name of the poster is off the top of the screen when I go to new posts and I thought it was EastUS that posted that. My apologies.

Jim

No problem.

 

[Move2CLT]

Good question. What do you think the transition agreement (TA) will look like that is signed by USAPA, APA, and LCC?

Even if USAPA bargains with APA with a NIC list could it not be modified to include adjustments for LOS prior to going to MB arbitration?

Who knows what we will end up with - we are all just along for the ride.

Transition agreement?!?!?! LMAO!!!!!

USAPA bargains?!?!?! LMAO!!!!!!

OK, my stomach is killing me!!! Deep breath.

Here are some facts:

- Parker wants this deal
- APA needs this deal and they're the majority
- Parker doesn't need USAPA
- Parker doesn't want DFR2 interfering with the process
- USAPA wasn't informed of the merger until long after the process started.
- USAPA wasn't even allowed to attend a negotiating session

But you are 100% spot on with being along for the ride. Nic will be used to avoid litigation and there is nothing USAPA can do about it.

Two lists - one is Nic and the other is APA.

 

[cleardirect]

Yep...and...I do believe it's the respective unions that submit lists. An interesting little mess hereabouts. Time will tell the tale I guess.

Watch the last crew news from PHX.

Parker says that the company has a seat at the table during this arbitration. So the company is going to have a say on what list is used. If judge Silver says anything about liability not using Nicolau you can bet your last dollar it will be the Nicolau.

 

[Res Judicata]

Sigh!...I was asking for any actual information.....Oh well. OK..so, it's "a list put together by an douche eastie that removes west pilots." Have you any idea as to the intended use?

The same use a teenage boy has for a playboy... Fantasy exercise.

 

[Claxon]

Michael Cleary took the easterners to the promised land. An AA transaction with no Nic. The easterners should be raising him high on their shoulders in gratitude. If the westerners think USAPA was used to circumvent the Nic? Either way, it did that exact deed. Nobody is fearful of the waning Leoniidas. They have insufficient funds, and a failed cause.

 

[Claxon]

Watch the last crew news from PHX.

Parker says that the company has a seat at the table during this arbitration. So the company is going to have a say on what list is used. If judge Silver says anything about liability not using Nicolau you can bet your last dollar it will be the Nicolau.

And Scott Kirby, your president says it is a do over. My money is on Kirby. Parker plays your group like a violin.

 

[prechilill]

And Scott Kirby, your president says it is a do over. My money is on Kirby. Parker plays your group like a violin.

That is not true, Parker actually said "he is not sure, but it may be a three way". Kirby said he thinks it will be a three way.
Now, since you have your money on Parker, and Parker stated the Change of Control is a non-issue for the company, you will accept that too while listening to violin. Have a great day!

 

[traderjake]

My money is on Kirby.

Your LOA 93 money?

 

[Keroseneuser]

Here is the possible scenario that I see the company exploiting if they can. Leaving our seniority issue long term out of it this is where I think we stand.

The company has cut out all the unions on the property not just USAPA so we are not dealing with just "Those troublesome pilots"

Right now we do in fact have some furlough protection in the form of the transition agreement. We have min fleet counts on both east and west and scope protections. Though as I understand it the scope protections we have is from the east contract which extends to the west via the transition agreement.

Now if we do something stupid and let all our east west anamosity push us into a joint list PRIOR to the AA transaction or prior to joint US/AA contract the way I understand it is the Transition agreement will cease to exist, as will all the min fleet protections east and west and all the scope on the west. Or at least I see it giving the company the ability to interpret it that way and running with it as we have seen them do on so many other contractual issues. I do not know how strong the transition agreement is concerning ratification vs. integrated list. Meaning the company may be able to side step the t/a without a ratified contract if we have a final seniority list done that is not being disputed in a court anywhere. Or Doug may need to get us to be greedy and vote in a quick contract (east/west joint w/o AA yet)with the pay rates he has promised AA but without the furlough protections he has agreed to with them.

in that case we could be going into a situation where we will still not be integrated with AA, but the deal is done and Doug has control. In that possible case AA will have full furlough protection and we will have nothing. The way they like to work I see the company "right sizing" the new airline to their liking prior to workforce integration with basically zero protections for PHX and only scope protections for the east.

If tempe was only cutting USAPA out of this process I could buy the west posters comments on here about USAPA's irrelevance to them. But they are doing the same thing to every workgroup on the property. I think that is leaving a huge hole for the company to attempt to exploit. They figure after all this time east and west workgroups will jump on the payrates he is talking about with AA pilots, mechs, f/a's etc and we will blindly go into this expecting APA and other AA unions to "protect" us. History shows that to be the last thing AA unions do in a merger. If APA for instance can ensure that all furloughs come from only the ex USAirways pilots you can bet your butt that is what they will do. We screw up and gut our only protections currently in effect and you can bet they will exploit it to protect their own.

Right now AA's back is againt the wall and they want what Doug is offering. If Doug completes the deal and we as a whole workgroup are not protected, history shows the AA unions will turn on us very fast.

Just the way I see it given the total lack of involvment mgmt. has given to a single workgroup at USAirways to date.

 

[Keroseneuser]

One other item. i do know that USAirways applicants have already received a letter stating that interviewing has ceased here due to the AA situation. That could be due to AA furloughees being slated to be recalled to our side, or it could be a tell tell sign of a potential cut on our side. Given that this merger integration will for sure take longer than the time left before the large scale retirements start kicking in this december leaves some doubt as to plans.

 

[prechilill]

Kerosene, your post is spot-on. APA is going to steamroll us as the "Paul Musics" "fight to the death" over something that happened five years ago. Once the TA goes away between east and west, a pseudo-staple SLI with the APA where most of us are slotted in to the narrow body realm, we can fight for the scraps. We have new masters