June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

Hint:

So you'd rather remain ignorant than even invest in a dictionary....to each his own...

Here's a hint for you - they're available free online.

Jim

 

[EastUS1]

Here's a hint for you - they're available free online.

A sad pity for you that class and character aren't available for free anywhere.

 

[EastUS1]

And we did not have to repeat the meaningless word VERIFY (it's either checked or set) and have TRIGGERS as crutches. Nor did we have endless briefs about arbitrary taxi routes have yet to be issued by controllers. <_<

EC: Firstly, this is again, not meant by me as any east vs west bs. Hmmm...this business just gets "curiouser and curiouser". I'm now wondering just who actually came up with all this. It's reading to me that much of what's fairly recently changed has done so for both sides. The business of "triggers" didn't exist before, and I'm with you on the verify thing as well. "Checked" and/or "Set" contented me for many years...and made a lot more sense.

Oh well....it's likely not appropriate to bring out much in the way of any more detailed ops discussion into a public chat area, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[EastUS1]

Said the gummer who challenged folks to a dogfight!

Stick with your ostriche plume fetish son. Don't get too far out of your depth. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

.....also, just saying I do not know how things will turn out....but can opine on why there is a very low probablility they would turn out in some illegal fashion.

Understood. I've far less certainty as what's "illegal" here though, in that even the CEO recently notes a potential for 3 parties/lists/whatever. Methinks we're all stuck with just waiting to see. Who knows what will happen and within what time frame from Judge Silver's court just for starters/etc? I can imagine a number of other variables as well. "Interesting Times" as the old chinese curse would have it.

 

[luvn737s]

Stick with your ostriche plume fetish son. Don't get too far out of your depth. 😉

Now see how much more lucid you become when you're angry, regardless of what your meds might claim.

 

[EastUS1]

Now see how much more lucid you become when you're angry, regardless of what your meds might claim.

Merely amused boy, merely amused 😉 You seem to be working through some "issues" though...Do you feel the need to talk about it?...Might help some...?

 

[767one]

Looks like the old easties are at it already with the AA pilots.

From the APA board:


I road home on Usair to CLT, and a CO-Pilot had something he could not wait to show me. Evidently a pilot at Usair has gotten ahold of our seniority list, and has created a combined Usair/AA list that shows them where the will fall with strait date of Hire. This is the second trip in a row to clt on Usair where the co-pilots are obnoxious about date of hire. They are also up set that APA accepted pref bidding, and want there current system to remain. On both trips home the Co-pilots were upper 50's maybe even 60. I don"t really no the details of what we are doing about this subject,but their tone is a little nasty/demanding. They are deathly afriad we a going to take over, and they will be marginalized(YEPH). I can only hope the Fence is sufficently high to keep us from being over run by this Geriatric mob!!

I sure hope this quote is not verbatim. The spelling is so bad that is seems like a parody. Hopefully this person is not involved with writing a contract.Do I hear a banjo in the background?

 

[A320 Driver]

Hmmm because that was the best way you idiot. Did you forget the west system was designed to stop mistakes? When flaps full were the norm, lots of guys when doing flaps 3 would never get to checklist. Make sense?

No it doesn't make sense.
Here's a novel concept..."Gear Down, Landing Checklist". Works every time. The landing gear, for most of us, is NOT optional.

Driver...

 

[EastCheats]

EC: Firstly, this is again, not meant by me as any east vs west bs. Hmmm...this business just gets "curiouser and curiouser". I'm now wondering just who actually came up with all this. It's reading to me that much of what's fairly recently changed has done so for both sides. The business of "triggers" didn't exist before, and I'm with you on the verify thing as well. "Checked" and/or "Set" contented me for many years...and made a lot more sense.

Oh well....it's likely not appropriate to bring out much in the way of any more detailed ops discussion into a public chat area, so I'll leave it at that.

It's very likely will have to go through all this again with American. All our procedures will be changed anyway. Oh, joy.

 

[cleardirect]

EC: Firstly, this is again, not meant by me as any east vs west bs. Hmmm...this business just gets "curiouser and curiouser". I'm now wondering just who actually came up with all this. It's reading to me that much of what's fairly recently changed has done so for both sides. The business of "triggers" didn't exist before, and I'm with you on the verify thing as well. "Checked" and/or "Set" contented me for many years...and made a lot more sense.

Oh well....it's likely not appropriate to bring out much in the way of any more detailed ops discussion into a public chat area, so I'll leave it at that.

Best practices my behind. If I remember correctly we changed in 4 phases. The first phase was mostly west practice. After the screaming and shouts of "this is unsafe" I had a flt ops manager tell me that he had east pilots going to the FAA saying the checklists were unsafe. Boys the FAA signed off on them. They decided that the checklists were safe.

But all of that is not going to matter. If we merge with American we will walk into class and be handed out manuals and we will be doing it the American way. Let's hear how much you guys will #### about that. More calls to the FAA? That little carrier from Texas surely does not know what they are doing. After all the east has been doing it longer than anyone.

 

[cleardirect]

Understood. I've far less certainty as what's "illegal" here though, in that even the CEO recently notes a potential for 3 parties/lists/whatever. Methinks we're all stuck with just waiting to see. Who knows what will happen and within what time frame from Judge Silver's court just for starters/etc? I can imagine a number of other variables as well. "Interesting Times" as the old chinese curse would have it.

Watch Parker closely. In the CLT crew news he said it could be a 2 or 3 way. In PHX he does not even mention the possibility of a 2 way.

Parker is burning his credibility simply to appease the east. He will say whatever it takes to keep you guys calm long enough to get this merger done. He knows that if he came out today and said the Nicolau is the list you guys would scream and cry and take out USA today ads running off the investors.

Look at how excited you all are about those rates. Have any of you even looked at the rest of the terms? Parker will say anything and give you guys the smallest hope to get you guys "on board". That is easy since you east guys are so willing to grasp at any straw that floats by.

 

[EastUS1]

It's very likely will have to go through all this again with American. All our procedures will be changed anyway. Oh, joy.

Yep...oh joy indeed, but, if we do merge; I'd reasonably expect their procedures to have been "around for awhile", and at least representative of a consistent philosophy. That "consistent" part, we could all work with. I'll have to ask a couple American buddies what they think. I've never heard them particularly beef about their procedures though...I'll take that as a good sign so far.

 

[EastUS1]

Best practices my behind.

No argument there. It sure doesn't seem like any "best" methodology was put together....more the opposite methinks.

 

[EastCheats]

Yep...oh joy indeed, but, if we do merge; I'd reasonably expect their procedures to have been around for awhile, and at least representative of a consistent philosophy. That "consistent" part, we could all work with.

I'm fine with the "consistent" part of the procedures. It's the Law of Primacy all us old folks deal with.

Unlearning is the challenge.