June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fatherabraham]

im back,

Excellent post!
If ANY common sense prevails in sli, much if not all you predict will come to be.

FA

 

[im back..!!]

eastus..when you form a union to BREAK FEDERAL LAW and promote yourself at my expense....SCRATCH THAT, the noose around usapa's neck is getting tighter and soon the wicked witch of the east, known as usapa will be DEAD.

I like my odds going forward without YOU and your kind.

OTTER

This was the statement I was refering to Otter, when I said the nic was not federal. I assumed (wrongfully I guess) you were refering to the formation of USAPA to break the nic.

So that said, what Federal Law do you think we formed USAPA to break?

And remember, a Federal judge does have the power to rule between a company and a CBA. Such as was done with the injunction.

And contracts and contract law: made, broken, amended, and changed daily in America, welcome to the best justice system you can buy.. ;-)

 

[Graceson]

Sorry Otter, you are misunderstanding of the nic. The nic is not federal law, Nicolau was a federal arbitrator, he was not arbitrating a federal issue within alpa's seniority integrations...

Federal arbitrations are not apealable, that was explained to the west on the 16th....thats why macaskil-bond is not appealable....


I believe APA will accept DOH to protect there 85-90 hires, and there furloughees.

With a 7 year fence (already agreed to in APA term sheet with Usairways) 2000-2500 pilots from Usairways are gone by the end of fence, leaving 2000 with an nominal DOH arnd 90-2005. That meshes in well behind there 85-90 hires (approx 4000 pilots) and protects there furloughee's (when they get recalled, no bump or flush, so west pilots and 3rd listers are job protected)

If that sounds to farfetched, try to,put yourself in there shoes, what would you do, and nobody geats any different treatment. All the same, equally and fair. Everyone gets what they got when they were hired.

Similar to SWA/Airtran, there will not be a need to go to Macaskil-Bond mandated arbitrators, because both APA and USAPA will agree to the terms, both sides happy to have protected the seniority of there members.

The company gets there single certificate, and combined seniority group with a 6yr contract. The company will realize quick synergies of scale, and hopefully significant profits.

The nic will have never been implemented per the TA stipulation of a joint contract between east n west, simply a footnote in Wikipedia near the end of Usairways....

Just my thoughts after seeing how things are developing at crew news sessions and puttin myself in APA's place...

PS: if all you have is typical weboard name callin over my idea, well most on here will discount you out of hand, so save your effoert. If however you havea legitimate point to shoot my vision of things to come. Please, we all welcome a true reality thought, thx...

The McCaskill- Bond Act has no relevance to M&As which predate the 2008 Amendment. Where today, ultimate resolutions to irreconcilable differences are settled by final and binding federal intervention, yesterday it was disputable union processes. The disputable part taking place in the long, dragged out process of litigation.

An appeal would be granted in grievance for a disputable CBA's SLI predating 2008. However, if the CBA used the McCaskill Act as its template to ultimately settle an SLI, then it might be an uphill battle for opposing argument by plaintiff. The court would reasonably lean to the conservative side of recent law (McCaskill) as a just template of resolution. Recognize that the McCaskill Act uses Allegheny-Mohawk Labor Protective Provisions as its template.

 

[Move2CLT]

That's a most kindly thought indeed. Now; all you need do is find any with some situational awareness and mental facility at least meeting, and hopefully exceeding, that of the average sea sponge. Dismissed.

I really wish you'd learn to write clearly.

 

[Move2CLT]

Boo Boo,

STOP the presses!
Did you really think anyone to believe you have 4 friends?

FA

Boo boo,

I have 5 because I include you.

You had me at Nic.

 

[Metroyet]

So that said, what Federal Law do you think we formed USAPA to break?

And remember, a Federal judge does have the power to rule between a company and a CBA. Such as was done with the injunction.

And contracts and contract law: made, broken, amended, and changed daily in America, welcome to the best justice system you can buy.. ;-)

USAPA was formed explicitly to deny the West pilots their rights to fair representation. That's illegal. Robert Siegle....a lawyer I believe authored a text book related to the RLA....informed Judge Silver that the Nic award is now folded into the Status Quo and it will be transferred to whomever in perpetuity. The RLA is also a big pile of Laws that USAPA has no interest in acknowledging. That's Illegal as well.

I hope I've answered your question.

 

[luvthe9]

This entire Nic thing is rapidly drawing down. Parker has seen to that. He knows he needs to deflate the West folks now that the merger is coming on. He cleared the smoke in that crew news about Nic. You guys now need to listen to him, and work on a good deal for yourselves that is acceptable. The Nic was stupid and you should have known what reaction it would make. ALPA even warned you off but Johnny Mac had to go and press his luck.

 

[Move2CLT]

This entire Nic thing is rapidly drawing down. Parker has seen to that. He knows he needs to deflate the West folks now that the merger is coming on. He cleared the smoke in that crew news about Nic. You guys now need to listen to him, and work on a good deal for yourselves that is acceptable. The Nic was stupid and you should have known what reaction it would make. ALPA even warned you off but Johnny Mac had to go and press his luck.

Luv's BS is rapidly drawing down. Being wrong so many times and with USAPA begging to be included at the table, it's obvious Parker is going to use the Nic as its the path of least resistance.

Kasher didnt pay and Parker will use the Nic.

 

[Move2CLT]

The Nicolau abomination lives in the current TA between the east/west pilots (USAPA as heir to the two ALPA MECs) and the company.

The new TA between the company, APA and USAPA will shortly supersede the old TA, thereby killing the Nicolau.

If USAPA allows the Nicolau to die in that manner, maybe they will indeed be subject to a DFR. But USAPA will soon go extinct, and there will be no one left to sue. APA will have clean hands, since they will have in no way inherited the Nicolau, since they were not parties to the original TA.

Only possible recourse will be to sue the company over an argument that has no chance to prevail.

It will incorporate not supersede the current TA. Keep dreaming.

If the Nic were dead, Parker would have mo Ed us on long ago.

 

[OTTER574]

eastus..when you form a union to BREAK FEDERAL LAW and promote yourself at my expense....SCRATCH THAT, the noose around usapa's neck is getting tighter and soon the wicked witch of the east, known as usapa will be DEAD.

I like my odds going forward without YOU and your kind.

OTTER

This was the statement I was refering to Otter, when I said the nic was not federal. I assumed (wrongfully I guess) you were refering to the formation of USAPA to break the nic.

So that said, what Federal Law do you think we formed USAPA to break?

And remember, a Federal judge does have the power to rule between a company and a CBA. Such as was done with the injunction.

And contracts and contract law: made, broken, amended, and changed daily in America, welcome to the best justice system you can buy.. ;-)

If a union such as usapa, such as alpa, such as apa and company amends my TA to HARM ME. I've the mechanism in place to sue your collective azzs's off.

Usapa's DFR against the WEST CLASS is in broad daylight and for all to see. Some of whom are FEDERAL JUDGES and a JURY.

OTTER

 

[Move2CLT]

From USAPAs NAC:

"US Airways and USAPA were resuming their discussions in Phoenix this week regarding, among other things, equal participation at the negotiating table between APA, USAPA and US Airways Management"

LMAO! USAPA has to have a discussion as to whether or not theyre included in negotiations.

Now that's a position of power!

"...they recognize the somewhat awkward position we are in."

Understatement.

"We’ll see if the Company accommodates these changes."

Considering USAPA is a non-player, I'm going to say no.

 

[Move2CLT]

From Gary Hummer:

":I spent two days in Washington delivering our message regarding the proposed acquisition by US Airways of American Airlines. "

I wonder if the APA thinks of it as an acquisition?

I remember when AWA acquired ISAir.

 

[OTTER574]

From USAPAs NAC:

"US Airways and USAPA were resuming their discussions in Phoenix this week regarding, among other things, equal participation at the negotiating table between APA, USAPA and US Airways Management"

LMAO! USAPA has to have a discussion as to whether or not theyre included in negotiations.

Now that's a position of power!

"...they recognize the somewhat awkward position we are in."

Understatement.

"We'll see if the Company accommodates these changes."

Considering USAPA is a non-player, I'm going to say no.

I hear that Gary Hummel/new usapa president, can't even get Doug Parker's secretary to return his calls..... 😛

And for you eastus1... 😉

OTTER

 

[Graceson]

USAPA was formed explicitly to deny the West pilots their rights to fair representation. That's illegal. Robert Siegle....a lawyer I believe authored a text book related to the RLA....informed Judge Silver that the Nic award is now folded into the Status Quo and it will be transferred to whomever in perpetuity. The RLA is also a big pile of Laws that USAPA has no interest in acknowledging. That's Illegal as well.

I hope I've answered your question.

Five slices of a flawed union processes pie were thrown at USAirways pilots prior to the very mention of a merger. Unfortunatrly for the origional USAirways pilots, lessons learned have only advantaged how other labor groups challenge management and their own CBAs to pursue a different outcome. Here, before the merger was announced, seeds were planted. The debate for a new bargaining agent had begun. With the subsequent merger announcement, the sixth and final slice of a flawed process pie was thrown, striking east and west. The seeds werewere not planted here. Here, the processseeds only gained momentum.

Today, ALPA recognises that its SLI process was flawed and has amended that process... Just as congress has recognized such flaws and have amended the process where differences are irreconcilable.

 

[OTTER574]

USAPA was formed explicitly to deny the West pilots their rights to fair representation. That's illegal. Robert Siegle....a lawyer I believe authored a text book related to the RLA....informed Judge Silver that the Nic award is now folded into the Status Quo and it will be transferred to whomever in perpetuity. The RLA is also a big pile of Laws that USAPA has no interest in acknowledging. That's Illegal as well.

I hope I've answered your question.

Metroyet,

Well written.

Makes a document submitted as evidence as to why usapa was formed and a unions intention to do harm against the west class. Authored by none other than usapa founder and current usapa vp, steve bradford.

Oh how should I put this...THE SMOKING GUN comes to mind.

OTTER