June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Umm..." All the other experts think.."? Have you polled "All the other experts", or is this yet another "The rest of the world" type of statement?

No...all the other experts have already given their opinions for me to read in the open public forum.

For instance, the 9ths Tashima wrote an opinion in Addington warning of the "unquestionably ripe DFR", as well as Bybee's disenting opinion in the same case.

Then you have LCC attorney Seigel. He has stated things in open court that point out the glaring flaws in the usapa plan.

We also have Jeff Freund's comments regarding DFR and the failure of such that would be inherent in the usapa plan.

Then of course we have the Polsinelli-Shugart law firm of over 600 attorneys in 12 states. I am thinking that while the RLA and labor law may not be their frontrunner forte, they do have reference to call upon. BTW, what PS is really good at is winning very large awards from corporations who try to renege on contractual obligations.

Lets see who is left....oh, there is the union buster Seeham...who incorrectly assumed you could get away with violating a unions DFR by offering a "cost neutral contract" and fighting the ensuing DFR lawsuit, on the entire premiose that although the West would have a case, "DFRs are notoriously hard to prosecute". Seeham's plan was to go ahead an violate the DFR, and try to make the West prove it.

One more guy, the Baptiste and Wilder lawyer who wrote a piece on Wake's injunction that completely disregarded the fact that there is a governing TA that amended the CBAs of the work groups. Otherwise, he would have had a point, but, like Seeham, a misguided incorrect point.

Almost forgot....the most important opinion of all the lawyers we have all read......the lawyer who warned scab Bradford in an e-mail to not tell anyone why he was forming the union , because any judge, jury, lawyer out there would veiw the intentional violation of contracts as an illegal persuit.

 

[nic4us]

Indeed! Take a bow. USAPA will be long gone after any integration with APA. There won't be anything left to sue! Unlike ALPA. USAPA is just doing its' job to represent the majority of pilots in the transaction. Just because they aren't around in a few years later after it is all said and done, is nobodys fault. It is just a normal course of events, a perfect example of what Freund warned of. "All the risk lies with the west......" Can't say the West was not warned, and they were. It is just the normal course of events in a merger. If the West wants to go ahead fully warned about the danger of no compromise, that is their lot in life.How do you sue, when you knew the Nic was not required by USAPA to use? Even the 9th said it over and over. If you don't listen, that is your fault. I wish there was some compromise, and the Nic obviously isn't working.

Swan buddy,.....I suggest you go bone up on the liability a corporation incurs for reaping benefit from a unions DFR.

usapa can go by the wayside...nothing will make the West happier.

 

[Phoenix]

No...all the other experts have already given their opinions for me to read in the open public forum.

For instance, the 9ths Tashima wrote an opinion in Addington warning of the "unquestionably ripe DFR", as well as Bybee's disenting opinion in the same case.

Then you have LCC attorney Seigel. He has stated things in open court that point out the glaring flaws in the usapa plan.

We also have Jeff Freund's comments regarding DFR and the failure of such that would be inherent in the usapa plan.

Then of course we have the Polsinelli-Shugart law firm of over 600 attorneys in 12 states. I am thinking that while the RLA and labor law may not be their frontrunner forte, they do have reference to call upon. BTW, what PS is really good at is winning very large awards from corporations who try to renege on contractual obligations.

Lets see who is left....oh, there is the union buster Seeham...who incorrectly assumed you could get away with violating a unions DFR by offering a "cost neutral contract" and fighting the ensuing DFR lawsuit, on the entire premiose that although the West would have a case, "DFRs are notoriously hard to prosecute". Seeham's plan was to go ahead an violate the DFR, and try to make the West prove it.

One more guy, the Baptiste and Wilder lawyer who wrote a piece on Wake's injunction that completely disregarded the fact that there is a governing TA that amended the CBAs of the work groups. Otherwise, he would have had a point, but, like Seeham, a misguided incorrect point.

Almost forgot....the most important opinion of all the lawyers we have all read......the lawyer who warned scab Bradford in an e-mail to not tell anyone why he was forming the union , because any judge, jury, lawyer out there would veiw the intentional violation of contracts as an illegal persuit.

Let's pretend that APA is nodding their collective head at everything you say (or mean to be saying) regarding USAPA's culpability. In the words of Cleardirect, "While APA is watching USAPA get sued, what do they care?"

 

[luvthe9]

Polsinelli-Shugart is especially good at figuring out how to blow 2 million dollars on on un ripe case! That was their best move yet. :blush: :blush: :blush:

 

[jetjok1]

I don't buy off on YOUR very SLICK OPINION, but it really doesn't count does it?

FEDERAL COURTS of LAW DO and hope you're in agreement.

Places a Company/Corporation and a CORRUPT UNION don't like to be, explaining themselves in regards to my contract/TA.

OTTER

First, your "all ears" for his response and now his opinion really doesn't count. Whatsa a matter, Boo Boo, didn't get the answer you wanted. Might be you shouldnt ask the question , if you don't want to hear the answer.

 

[jetjok1]

Soooo What you guys gonna do when Ron Paul becomes President and does away with Right to Work, NLRB, NMB and all of the other regulations and allows a true free market?

Enjoying golf at the country club, working on my muscle cars and continue making wine.........And You?

 

[nic4us]

Let's pretend that APA is nodding their collective head at everything you say (or mean to be saying) regarding USAPA's culpability. In the words of Cleardirect, "While APA is watching USAPA get sued, what do they care?"

Sorry, APA this is LCC retracting our offers due to our liability incurred from usapa negotiating with you.

 

[Phoenix]

When Ron Paul becomes president, the Nic will finally be implimented and you will be allowed to use your muscle cars as golf carts.

 

[Phoenix]

Sorry, APA this is LCC retracting our offers due to our liability incurred from usapa negotiating with you.

Funny thing is even Cleardirect can see through that. AA watched ALPA get sued.

 

[cleardirect]

Funny thing is even Cleardirect can see through that. AA watched ALPA get sued.

Normal and reasonable people have the ability to learn from other peoples mistakes. Usapa and east pilots lack that ability.

Yes APA watched ALPA get sued for the same behavior that you east guys are hoping for. That behavior was to screw over a group at the expense of the majority without the benefit of a neutral third party arbitrator.

APA watched ALPA get hammered for possibly hundreds of millions. There is no way normal reasonable people put themselves in a position to be sued after watching another union get sued and lose.

But hey I have tried to warn you. So keep dreaming your little dream. I guess you really can't fix stupid.

 

[nic4us]

Polsinelli-Shugart is especially good at figuring out how to blow 2 million dollars on on un ripe case! That was their best move yet. :blush: :blush: :blush:

No that was I made off with 5 million Seeham"s doing.

But, you are right, it was their best move yet, getting a jury verdict on merit for all the world to see what the east scabs were doing.


Now try and renegotiate LCC seniority and see where that gets you.

 

[nic4us]

Funny thing is even Cleardirect can see through that. AA watched ALPA get sued.

And they can watch LCC get sued, and their term sheet and usapa "negotiated" seniority theft negated.

 

[signals]

Let's pretend that APA ...

... "While APA is watching USAPA get sued, what do they care?"

Let's pretend that there is a merger.

They obviosly are looking at your internal fighting that has been going on for years and your dirty laundry is out there for all to see.

 

[oscarjazz]

Facts: Under the Allegheny/Mohawk LPPs all matter of dispute will be solve eventually through binding arbitration.
Under the A/M LPP's the companies are parties in the matter of seniority integration.

Prediction: When asked to submit a list for US Airways for the seniority integration, USAPA will submit a DOH list or try to submit two different lists.

LCC management will submit the Nicolau list.

The matter will go to arbitration. The Nicolau list will be affirmed and that's it. USAPA will either cry and go home or try to move on from there. Merely my prediction.

 

[EastUS1]

No...all the other experts have already given their opinions for me to read in the open public forum.

For instance, the 9ths Tashima wrote an opinion in Addington warning of the "unquestionably ripe DFR", as well as Bybee's disenting opinion in the same case.

..... , because any judge, jury, lawyer out there would veiw the intentional violation of contracts as an illegal persuit.

No personal slam here nic, but, the very noting of "...Bybee's disenting opinion.." lends spurious "support" towards any all inclusive statements.

"...the intentional violation of contracts as an illegal persuit." That last is nothing short of pure fantasy, as courts obliterate contracts all the time. Observe what's being done to the unfortunate folks at American as we speak.

I certainly don't know how all will turn out...but...the employment of blanket statements and/or assumptions seems foolish to me whenever any are gazing into a crystal ball.