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June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Strange, as that flies in the face of all that's actually taken place these past years. If that were at ALL a true statment; What then, was the clearly huge problem with accepting ANY fences for the west?...Umm....Hmm...Thought as much.....I think we're done here.

Strange how you have a completely differing recollection of the history of our seniority integration.

Bottom line, the east did not want fences because they would have interfered with the taking of West jobs. Once the Nic came out, which had a fence on the widebodies BTW, there were no offers of fences, why should there be, the east was going to kick ALPA to the curb and steal the West jobs they did not deserve or get from Nic.

Now are you talking about the fences implied by the scabs C&Rs, and saying that the West should have rolled over to the scabs demands and accepted the C&Rs.
 
Strange, as that flies in the face of all that's actually taken place these past years. If that were at ALL a true statment; What then, was the clearly huge problem with accepting ANY fences for the west?...Umm....Hmm...Thought as much.....I think we're done here.
If the east had considered or offered fences BEFORE the arbitration was done we would have thought about it. But you were "comfortable in your position" You wanted everything and fences would have stopped the theft of that.

I tell you what. How about you go to Parker and try and work out some compromise on LOA 93 or MDA. If he is willing to offer you anything other than what the arbitrator gave you. You come back and we will talk.

Final and binding ends the discussion. Now I think we are done here.
 
"If that were at ALL a true statment; What then, was the clearly huge problem with accepting ANY fences for the west?.."

You wanted everything and fences would have stopped the theft of that.

An amusing response, I must say. It's very kind of you to make my point for me here.

"Final and binding ends the discussion." Indeed....as it has for how many years now?
 
The Nicolau is finished, KAPUT. I see from the APA filings they have plans to raise the medical costs on a large basis for the easterners, and the westerners will see a huge increase. Do you have any objections for this? The westerners will not get the Nic, and will be saddled with actual concessions to make Parkers' dreams fly. Franke must be proud of the way Parker has turned on the eastern and now the western. The APA has turned this into a rout for themselves.
 
Parker is hosing all of us. 500 Million into the APA retirement fund, and the huge increases in medical. I know the West has low fees now but that is ending. Your raise out there is sucked away in medical costs. Unbelievable. There goes any pay raise for anyone after the East and West pay for the APA mess.
 


7 years? Where did you get that? From the Nicolau Opinion and award:

The America West Proposal
America West's initial proposal differed dramatically from that of
US Airways. As previously indicated, its position, when first presented
in detail, was a series of ratios accompanied with a two year condition
and restriction reserving to US Airways pilots all Captain positions on
the 9 A330 aircraft flying international routes as of May 19, 2005. The
firat proposed ratio was not Captain to Captain. Instead, America West
added to its 855 Captains an additional 114 First Officers, who,
America West claimed, expected captaincies based on the 19 A320s on
firm order as of May 2005. That combined figure (969) was to be
4 The financial condition arguments and the role those conditions
properly play are discussed below.
14
integrated on a straight ratio basis with 1121 US Airways Captains, a
number derived from staffing assumptions based on what 'were 221 US
Airways aircraft as of February 2006. This ratio would be followed by an
integration of the remaining America West First Officers (925) with
1051 US Airways First Officers, also on a straight ratio basis. After the
reinsertion of those on extended medical leaves and those in nonflying
positions, this would put 2431 US Airways pilots on the bottom of
the list, 959 of whom were active pilots as of May 19, 2005 with the
remaining 1472 furloughees.
Like that of US Airways, America West's position was not
substantially modified during the proceedings. It conceded that the
term of its proposed fence might be lengthened, but it continued to
insist that it apply only to Captains sufficient to staff 9 A330s, saying
that 8767 international flying was highly seasonal; that 8767s and
8757s are both Group I aircraft for pilot pay purposes, and that bidding
experience shows that 8767 flying is not highly prized. It also insisted
that any list must ratio active pilots with active pilots; that, based on
what was scheduled to happen at America West absent the merger and
because its pilots have been denied promotional opportunities as a
result of the merger while US Airway pilots who were on the verge of
losing their jobs have since been upgraded, a substantial number of
America West First Officers, set above at 114, should be treated as
Captains for ratio purposes, and, above all, that there be a substantial
15
number of active US Airways pilots placed below the least senior
America West pilot (Odell) so that they are exposed to the risk of
furlough before he is faced with that prospect. The reason this must be
done, according to the America West representatives, is that US
Airways pilots have been far more exposed to the risk of furlough over
,..
the course of their careers; that prospects of recovery at US Airways
were slim, while Odell, absent the merger, would have been
increasingly protected from furlough through the arrival of additional
aircraft on firm order combined with normal attrition at the carrier.
 
If the east had considered or offered fences BEFORE the arbitration was done we would have thought about it. But you were "comfortable in your position" You wanted everything and fences would have stopped the theft of that.

I tell you what. How about you go to Parker and try and work out some compromise on LOA 93 or MDA. If he is willing to offer you anything other than what the arbitrator gave you. You come back and we will talk.

Final and binding ends the discussion. Now I think we are done here.

There was no need for fences had the east proposal been accepted.
 
Parker is hosing all of us. 500 Million into the APA retirement fund, and the huge increases in medical. I know the West has low fees now but that is ending. Your raise out there is sucked away in medical costs. Unbelievable. There goes any pay raise for anyone after the East and West pay for the APA mess.
Since when do you care how Management treats the pilots? As a USAPA supporter you have told the Company you don't care what they do to pilots just so long as it doesn't include the NIC. USAPA takes out meaningless USA TODAY ads, calls for the firing of respected company officers, gets a federal injuntion for violating the RLA, and is generally little more than a gnat that Management has to be concerned with. Well at least the east pilots have a 1-year subscription to Lifelock to tied them over for their 8+ years on LOA93.
 
Parker is hosing all of us. 500 Million into the APA retirement fund, and the huge increases in medical. I know the West has low fees now but that is ending. Your raise out there is sucked away in medical costs. Unbelievable. There goes any pay raise for anyone after the East and West pay for the APA mess.
Welcome to the west world. How much was the west going to have to give up so the east could just get parity? $100 million.

Now you want to complain about what we are giving up for AA. You guys really have no ability to see a situation from the other side do you. It was not a problem until it effected you.

Yes the west is losing on this entire deal. That is why we are not excited about it. Yes the effective rate that the west will see is very low. After giving up our work rules (5:15 per day will not be 5:00 per day) increased health care, decreased LTD,STD. So that $172 may sound OK but after the work rules and increased cost, We may see an effective rate of $160, maybe. After 7 years an 11% raise for the west sucks.

Plus you want us to give you seniority by caving on the Nicolau. Do I have to even say it?
 
Welcome to the west world. How much was the west going to have to give up so the east could just get parity? $100 million.

Give up??? Parity was going to come out of YOUR pockets? You didn't mind our MEC dividing the profit sharing with you, a fact that many of you will not acknowledge. I can't see one ounce of truth or logic in this.

Splain it to me...

Driver...
 
The western greed with the Nicolau led to this conundrum. They will realize a pay increase with AA, yet give it right back through other reductions. The medical looks especially onerous for the western division. The minimum day will be reduced also. But they forge on for the Nicolau, even after getting profit sharing and other benefits from the eastern group. All the risk has taken on a new dimension. So be it, and they will not even get the Nicolau in the end. Unbelievable risk and no reward........
 
The western group was incredibly stupid with the pay parity. Now they will give up the Niclolau, and get parity with AA and the eastern group. The medical parity will destroy their raises. The pay parity issue was the most stupid of all. They possibly could have forged a deal with the eastern group with that, but they blew it. What a stupid move that was. ALL the RISK clearer by the day. Every day
 
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