June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastUS1]

I agree..."lets move on"....but we move on with the Nic, and that is non-negotiable.

Oh well...take your best shot then. I'm off to enjoy the day.

 

[nic4us]

What wholesale, complete and utter BS. I'm not "whining" about anything, as the nic doesn't matter to me personally....got that? What DOES matter to me is even the ridiculous thought of placing anyone ahead of another with a gross disparity of years worked. You would cheerfully place a new hire ahead of some with over a decade and a half years worked. On my worst possible day as a human being, I couldn't have EVER said to anyone that had more years worked than myself in a given trade, that I should, by whatever arcane magic, be made "senior" to them. That's just plain ridiculous to me on ANY level...Period. That you've no problem whatsoever with not seeing, in my belief, a clearly obscene level of immature selfishness in any who'd do so, and instead, are even actively seeking to do so yourself...well...you figure it out. We'll never see at all eye to eye on this.

Um...yes you are whining....you are non-stop whining that a neutral third party arbitration panel ruled that the fair way to integrate two seniority list was predicated on the position and status held by the respective groups, and not you preferred method.

Further, you insist that those who would benfit from your preferred method are somehow "entitled" to the positions held by their new found co-workers, even if they had NO position or status prior to the merger other than they once worked for and had time served at a now non-existant airline.

One more time here east....the West was not added to your list.

 

[Fully Cross Utilized]

From the post you're supposedly responding to: "What wholesale, complete and utter BS. I'm not "whining" about anything, as the nic doesn't matter to me personally....got that?"

It's nothing less than astonishing that anyone with your "attention to detail" could have missed this....Sigh!...or perhaps not 😉

This is a lot like when my child tells me she's not whining, all the while stomping her feet, rolling her eyes, flinging her hair and (dare I say it?!) WHINING.

 

[Move2CLT]

Wanna buy a bridge? This is a lawyers dream... continual litigation and arbitration.

Put the present paradigm in front of a 3 arbitator panel such as was used with Delta/Northwest and I will be happy to settle for whatever comes out of it.

Driver...

So long as it conforms to your expectations, right?

 

[Move2CLT]

I wasn't there, were you? I heard that your offer really sucked and that your drew a line in the sand that prevented real negotiations.

No, I wasn't at the table. But I was as close as you could get.

And our offers sucked because they weren't DOH.

 

[EastCheats]

From USAPA's public page. I feel honored to be a member. I hope APA can measure up.



About USAPA

"USAPA stands for US Airline Pilots Association. We are a union comprised of 5,200 mainline pilots that fly for US Airways. We formed our union based on the principles of democracy, transparency and free thought. We strive to create an environment where our pilots have all the tools needed to focus on the efficiency and safety of each of their flights.Organizationally, USAPA is governed by our Board of Pilot Representatives. Our Board is elected by our pilots from the individual pilot domiciles throughout our mainline US Airways system."

Oh really?

Our Mission

"USAPA’s mission is to ensure safe flights for our passengers by guaranteeing that their lives are in the hands of only the most qualified, competent and well-equipped pilots. USAPA will fight against any practices that may jeopardize our pilots’ training, equipment, workplace environment, compensation or work/life balance, or compromise our pilots’ ability to execute the optimal flight."

Thank you.

Our Membership

"We pride ourselves on being the most senior and experienced group of commercial pilots in the United States.Our pilots come from various backgrounds in private, commercial and military aviation. We fly our passengers to over 180 destinations, including Europe, Israel, Canada, Alaska, Hawaii, South America, Mexico and the Caribbean."

It's worth repeating.

Thanks again.

 

[EastUS1]

Um...yes you are whining....you are non-stop whining ....

Further, you insist that those who would benfit from your preferred method are somehow "entitled".....

One more time here east....the West was not added to your list.

!) That's more clearly the established job of yourself and like minded individuals, but maintain whatever fantasies you feel comforted by, which is likewise, well established behavior.

2) "are somehow "entitled". = NO! They've actually EARNED their positions/attrition/etc by years of working. No need to go further down that road, since it's evident nothing but the standard contempt for such would be shown...."But, but!...the arbitrator said!/etc" is nothing more than feeble justification for the lack of any functional moral compass.

3)"...the West was not added to your list" I literally thank God for that, although I've spoken with some west folks that seem to be very decent sorts.

A lovely day thus far...no point in spoiling it with further time spent here.

 

[luvn737s]

This is a lot like when my child tells me she's not whining, all the while stomping her feet, rolling her eyes, flinging her hair and (dare I say it?!) WHINING.

Does she whine using Victorian english and arcane sentence construction so that her whining will take on an affectation of superior intellect while still saying nothing?

Secondly, does it really matter how she whines?

 

[Move2CLT]

A lovely day thus far...no point in spoiling it with further time spent here.

You've already spoiled my day with your drivel so you may as well stay.

 

[nic4us]

!) That's more clearly the established job of yourself and like minded individuals, but maintain whatever fantasies you feel comforted by, which is likewise, well established behavior.

2) "are somehow "entitled". = NO! They've actually EARNED their positions/attrition/etc by years of working. No need to go further down that road, since it's evident nothing but the standard contempt for such would be shown...."But, but!...the arbitrator said!/etc" is nothing more than feeble justification for the lack of any functional moral compass.

3)"...the West was not added to your list" I literally thank God for that, although I've spoken with some west folks that seem to be very decent sorts.

A lovely day thus far...no point in spoiling it with further time spent here.

I suppose the only thing Odell earned when he was hired at AWA was the unfortunate position of having a scab steal his job.

Time served and all that gives Coello the right to scab Odell's job.....you are farther off the deep end than I originally thought.

 

[im back..!!]

I suppose the only thing Odell earned when he was hired at AWA was the unfortunate position of having a scab steal his job.

Time served and all that gives Coello the right to scab Odell's job.....you are farther off the deep end than I originally thought.

Interesting thought, (at least to me).

Just finished watchin "Hatfields & McCoy's"

In the end, the one's that started the feued, were the ones that wanted it to end, saw the foolishness of it.

Not unlike the members of those two famous families, i'm afraid the only respite we will get is when we retire. (thankfully, we wont have to die, like they did)

The longer you have to go in this job, the longer you will hold these thoughts in the back of your mind....the hatred, the jealousy, the lust for what someone else has or thinks he has....

I guess evolution is really a long time, because it dosent seem we have come far from our ancestors of a hundred years ago.......and if theres a god, he has surrely left us to our own devices in this situation...... He must be chuckling at our pettiness.

Trully sad.......

There arent any "scabs" or thieves or any other derogatory people in this situation... Just two groups of people lumped together, not of our choosing, looking for the best outcome we can get, in a situation that we never had control over in the first place.

I believe merger policy should state "my side gets stapled"..... Then we all would be grateful for anything other than that.

Just my thoughts.... Peace be with everyone.....

 

[BoeingBoy]

2) "are somehow "entitled". = NO! They've actually EARNED their positions/attrition/etc by years of working.

Then why weren't the furloughed in the positions they "earned" at the time of the merger?

That's your simple-minded problem right there - they were in the position their time at US earned them - no lower and no higher. But you want them to have the job of someone else that was at another airline where his/her time earned more. You want to take from the position a west pilot had earned at the time of the merger for no other reason than an east pilot hadn't earned as good a position at that time. You believe that west pilots don't deserve those jobs, which should rightfully belong to east pilots, or "It's all about meee."

BTW, still waiting on that list...

Jim

 

[HPearlyretiree]

That's why they call them the "Entitlement East" Don't you know how much they suffered? (hint: those aren't the engines whining, its folk that can't live up to their binding arbitration agreement)

Never should have bought USAirways, should have let it go Chapter 7 and pick up the pieces like it was a garage sale.

 

[luvn737s]

There arent any "scabs" or thieves or any other derogatory people in this situation... Just two groups of people lumped together, not of our choosing, looking for the best outcome we can get, in a situation that we never had control over in the first place.

I believe merger policy should state "my side gets stapled"..... Then we all would be grateful for anything other than that.

Just my thoughts.... Peace be with everyone.....

Some of what you said is correct, but there are some who would disagree with your last point. The folks who decided they could use the raw emotions of the Nicolau award to advance an agenda that harmed west pilots including the presently furloughed, deserve the monikers they get. And those whose vindictiveness extended to the RICO suit, producing harm to those innocent west pilots who had to unnecessarily pay for a legal defense, those folks have earned the disdain cast on them. And finally and most disturbingly is the vast number of pilots who gave tacit approval by allowing Cleary unfettered reign.

No, there definitely are some very bad people on the east side who have been allowed to cause unnecessary harm, that cannot be denied.

 

[700UW]

That's why they call them the "Entitlement East" Don't you know how much they suffered? (hint: those aren't the engines whining, its folk that can't live up to their binding arbitration agreement)

Never should have bought USAirways, should have let it go Chapter 7 and pick up the pieces like it was a garage sale.

HP didnt buy US, how many times do we have to correct you?

US proposed the merger and raised the funding, will you ever learn that fact?