Management In Clt

[diogenes]

Singleflyer,
I don't think you will find any disputing the absloute merits of using safety gear...and following "Safety Regs" to the letter....but the issue at hand was people being punished for a momentary slip in one instance...then being ask to go against safety procedures in the next. Remember the comment about the safety cones being ignored at "Managements Instructions" to off load a B737 without clearing it with Maintenance first?

You cannot "Pick and Choose" what you are going to elect to enforce if "safety" is the first and foremost concern here?

You CAN "Pick and Choose" what you elect to enforce , if being punitive is your sole motivation however.

I do believe the contradiction of deed / actions Vs. reward and punishment is what is being taken to task in this thread , not the Merits of being right or wrong with safety vests.

The issue is injury and damage prevention , which this company has had more than its fair share of...with that in mind, it pays to be safe and right across the board..not at someones discretion for the sake of momentary expediance.

[post="250443"][/post]​

Well said, Phantom.

 

[Benz M-100]

Back on topic, I think far too much emphasis is put on the vests and wands. SO often in PHL, we wait for several minutes for someone on the ramp to even acknowlege the presence of a 737. When someone eventually waddles out to marshall us in (usually with "island time" urgency) they always make sure to make everyone wait additionally to 1) grab the chocks so they're next to the mark, 2) don the all important vest and 3)grab the wands. I can see in periods of low visibility where the vest and wands may actually be necessary, but 99.9% of the time this silly dance is simply comical to watch as we sit there burning gas and making people wait.
As is so often the case in dealing with bureaucracies, the letter of THE LAW!!! and common sense never meet. The most any errant marshaller should have gotten in a case such as this is a verbal reminder and let it go.
GOD I love this place!

 

[workngd]

You are so right Benz....but next time all the safety procedures are followed and you wait and watch the "dance" (LOL) will management be ready to discipline the gate for trying to run to the bathroom? :down:

 

[RedOne]

I don't know what was going on that day with the person who didn't wear a safety vest, but here is the picture that comes to mind. Agent is unloading a flight. Looks over and sees an aircraft taxiing into the gate next to him. No-one in sight to direct the flight in. The aircarft is sitting there waiting. Waiting/running engines burns fuel. Fuel cost money. Money is something we don't have a lot of (won't go into reasons). Waiting passengers are not happy passengers. Waiting crews are not happy crews. He has a choice....(1) let the aircraft sit there until someone else eventually parked it...and he continues to work the flight he is at, (2) leave the flight he is working to see if he can find a vest and wands to safely park the waiting flight, or (3) run over and park the aircraft without vest and wands. He/she probably should have said the heck with what it will cost for the aircraft to sit there....not even worry that the aircraft is blocking a taxiiway, and chosen number 2. Not doing so cost him personally.
.
LESSON LEARNED BY ALL?
(The beatings will continue until moral imporves! )

 

[mweiss]

RedOne,

While your mind's picture is, in fact, plausible, it's worth stepping back for a moment and thinking about what you just did.

You don't know what was going on that day with the person who didn't wear a safety vest. There are at least a dozen scenarios under which that could have happened. Some of them are like the one you illustrated, in that the employee was only trying do to the right thing and got punished for it. But others are not.

In your mind, you created a scenario that took the conclusion you had already made ("The beatings will continue until moral imporves [sic]!), and built a fiction around it. In doing so, you reinforced the conclusion that you started with.

It is precisely this behavior that illustrates how powerful inertia is. The power to change is within all of us. It serves us all well to give the benefit of the doubt when there is insufficient evidence to point to a particular conclusion.

In short, there is, as yet, no "lesson" to be learned here. We know what ultimately happened, but until we know why it happened, it behooves all to avoid jumping to conclusions.

 

[Harry Callahan]

The person was running abr saw the plane waiting & made the WRONG decision & parked it,

 

[smallstFSA]

We only use vests once a week when our manager comes around or when we see the FAA and as far as cones they are secondary to getting carryon bags to psgs as soon as possible. We constantly get compliments from crews mainline and express for efficiency and friendlyness and the CWA'rs depend on us for ground boarding and any kind of carry on/off of psgs. What is our reward for experience and common sense... OUTSOURCING...and for whatever reason we still do the right thing

 

[diogenes]

Actually. Michael, RedOne decsribes a scenario that happens every day.

It frequently happens that 3 a/c land within minutes of one another, at a station I know of where only 3 ramp agents are on duty.

No matter how much you preplan, things go awry. The crew off the first flight needs something right now they didn't bother to tell you about when they radioed 'in-range.' Gate agents get tied up with a deal inside, so now the ramper has to do their job, too. The manager decided now would be a good time to have a meeting with the supervisors and leads, so now you're more bodies short.

That happens EVERY STINKING DAY!

Now, up until recently, agents have run around trying to cover all of the bases. After the last concessions, most agents are saying, screw it. The thinking is, so long as I am WHERE management assigned me, doing WHAT they assigned me to do, I am meeting the requirements, and cannot get into trouble. Why risk getting jammed up, like that poor bastard in CLT, by excercising common sense?
Particularly since U seems to want to give the death penalty for jaywalking.

Here's a common sense question.

Why does the marshaller need a safety vest? He's got wands in his hands, he's standing at the expected spot - the crew knows where he is. The crew is following the hand signals, not the vest. Just who is the vest preventing from running over the marshaller? There is an 'all-clear' outline painted on the ramp where the a/c is to park. That area is to be clear before (a) the crew will taxi into it, and (B) the agent will marshal an a/c into it.

I'd come closer to disciplining an agent who failed to observe lock-out/tag-out procedures on a conveyor belt. You can REALLY get hurt there.

 

[mweiss]

Actually. Michael, RedOne decsribes a scenario that happens every day.

Absolutely. I've watched various minor infractions occur nearly every time I've taken a flight.

I remember talking with NW agents in PIT about the degree to which they're stretched thin. Things run so close to the edge that a butterfly flaps its wings and the entire operation falls to pieces. So, of course a vest isn't going to be the first thing on one's mind if one is focused on getting the job done.

To be clear, it is not that I'm doubting the plausibility of RedOne's hypothetical scenario. Far from it. It is that, in the absence of specifics, it is premature to conclude that what he imagined to be the events of the day matched reality. It is how negatives become self-reinforcing.

 

[700UW]

They get caught or snagged on other things, they just get in the way.

 

[RedOne]

If you have everyone wearing a vest, how does the capt know who is parking the aircraft? Vest not only for safety, but is an indicator to the crew, "look at me for directions. I'll keep you safe."
mweiss. Right now, I am one of the least negative people you can talk to. I retired a few weeks ago, and I find my attitude getting better daily! I'm still interested in what is going on at U, so about every 4 days I come and read. Yes my post was a 100% guess. I have no idea what really went on. My post was based on my personal past experiences. From what this person posted.....I was pretty close to correct.

quote
coachrowsey Posted Yesterday, 05:39 PM
The person was running abr saw the plane waiting & made the WRONG decision & parked it,

 

[AP Tech]

Years ago when we first started wearing the vests I was involved the same type of incident. As the vests were first made of a mesh material they were easy to get caught on things. I was working in the tail section of an MD80 changing a valve and the A/C at the adjacent gate arrived with nobody to marshall him in. After about 5 min I stopped what I was doing and ran to park the A/C. I ran down the stairs of the A/C and at the same time a utility person who was servicing the lav ran over and we parked the A/C. Later that day we were both called into the office and given a verbal. We explained the situatiuon to deaf ears. No Excuses we were told!!! Needless to say that was the last time we ran to park and A/C. Try and help them out and get written up!!!

 

[RedOne]

I, during my 38 active yrs, I worked with many who had been "caught" in the same manner. After being "caught" and repremanded (usually something verbal...but today yall are playing in a different game), they then worked with "blinders"on. They were where they were supposed to be and didn't worry about anything else. I would have been the one who would have gotten in trouble for parking the aircraft with no vest on too (running over to try and do what I thought was right). Not one who would have said, "Duh, boss, I don't know what happened. I had my blinders on...but I was where I was scheduled to be, doing what I was scheduled to do. Duh, you ain't gonna repremand me for doing my assigned job are you?"

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

I kinda thought upraised wands in the hand in their position at the gate might be good indicator who the marshaller was?

 

[eolesen]

I kinda thought upraised wands in the hand in their position at the gate might be good indicator who the marshaller was?

[post="251160"][/post]​

That was my thought as well. At our dysfunctional airline, if you're out on the ramp, you're expected to better be wearing a vest. That includes pilots and management.