Nov/Dec 2013 Fleet Service Discussion

[ograc]

Thank Tim, he got Frank elected.

There are bad apples in every basket. Likewise, I believe there are many on the current team who are dedicated, who make great sacrifices and work hard for the betterment of the membership. The challenge to the membership is sorting the seed from the chaff during the nomination / election process when considering candidates for DL Office. The chaff discredits the entire team. It's a shame we can't put together a slate of candidates who represent the seeds of the membership. I'm afraid it's not as simple as blaming Tim 700UW.

 

[charlie Brown]

thanks for the response, you don't think then they can pull the irregular ops bs then?

Already been discussed. A shortage in staffing or Raining in clt does not make for irregular operations. Not going to get into specifics on a pending grievance except to say conversations have already took place on what was done wrong, and I feel confident we will win the grievance. Yes much of our contract is very gray. However I think art 4a about what is our work, is pretty concrete.

 

[ograc]

Ograc,
 
I know that you have been in contact with MM, GS and myself in the past. I would hope that you would continue to contact one of us if you need something.
 
P. Rez     

CB and MF are aware of the lack of progress and have been helpful in moving the grievance forward. My question is; why should I have to go to them? Niether are assigned my station. These two are an example of the "seed" I have referred to regarding true and dedicated representation.

 

[charlie Brown]

There are bad apples in every basket. Likewise, I believe there are many on the current team who are dedicated, who make great sacrifices and work hard for the betterment of the membership. The challenge to the membership is sorting the seed from the chaff during the nomination / election process when considering candidates for DL Office. The chaff discredits the entire team. It's a shame we can't put together a slate of candidates who represent the seeds of the membership. I'm afraid it's not as simple as blaming Tim 700UW.

I couldn't agree more!!!! Until someone starts putting the members before their own ego, we will always be weeding out the POS on the different tickets. But this goes for everyone. Not just the current team. There were people running for AGC,s in the last election, that have never done a step 2 hearing before. You really think those people that are willing to do that, are in it for the members??

 

[ograc]

Toss out the time limits with this District team.  Yeah yeah yeah,  14 days here, 14 days there....but 3 years?  You are not alone Ograc, the contract allows the company an escape route in 'mediation' which just delays things even more and tosses things into the Bermuda triangle where grievances disappear for YEARS.  It really doesn't matter which AGC you have, Delaney lets management off the hook at all airlines.  Not every grievance should be tabled to mediation.  After no resolution, many should pass right to the system board of arbitration.  How many has Delaney's group actually arbitrated and won over the 4 years?  That's another topic altogether though.

How many have been actually arbitrated vs. an out of court settlement in mediation? Who knows. This particular grievance was one FO felt so confident about he stated we were going to arbitration for the full remedial action sought. No mediation. That was over three years ago.

 

[ograc]

I couldn't agree more!!!! Until someone starts putting the members before their own ego, we will always be weeding out the POS on the different tickets. But this goes for everyone. Not just the current team. There were people running for AGC,s in the last election, that have never done a step 2 hearing before. You really think those people that are willing to do that, are in it for the members??

A candidate's TRUE intent should not be measured on past experience alone; but on his or her character. Likewise, there were candidates from all slates who had past experience, but no character or interest, in the betterment of the membership. From a member's viewpoint how do you seperate the seed from the chaff? The first step would be to become informed of the candidate's references and past experience and involvement with the union. Unfortunately, most members coudn't be bothered with even this first step. They vote for the slate they are told to. The result; some good; some bad. Kinda like a 6 cylinder engine running on 3 cylinders. 

 

[charlie Brown]

A candidate's TRUE intent should not be measured on past experience alone; but on his or her character. Likewise, there were candidates from all slates who had past experience, but no character or interest, in the betterment of the membership. From a member's viewpoint how do you seperate the seed from the chaff? The first step would be to become informed of the candidate's references and past experience and involvement with the union. Unfortunately, most members coudn't be bothered with even this first step. They vote for the slate they are told to. The result; some good; some bad. Kinda like a 6 cylinder engine running on 3 cylinders.

I agree except for one thing. I'm talking about the people that put these tickets together. They should care enough about the members to put legitimate candidates on their ticket. To put someone on a ticket to be a AGC just because he is popular and you want his votes, is not being there for the members. I don't care how anybody wants to twist it. I even had a guy come to me that was running for AGC on one of the past tickets and tell me he didn't know the first thing about it, and that he just needed the money. But yet the person that put him on a ticket, wants you to believe they are in it for the members.

 

[robbedagain]

Orgac I hear ya regarding the yrs long process as for my grievance im still waiting for an answer as to whether or jot an arb hear will be schd and the place. Text numerous time n still no answer but im one of a few that wont give up

cb, prez I sure hope you and the nc team can make the new contract as clear as possible as theres soo much gray areas

 

[P. REZ]

CB and MF are aware of the lack of progress and have been helpful in moving the grievance forward. My question is; why should I have to go to them? Niether are assigned my station. These two are an example of the "seed" I have referred to regarding true and dedicated representation.

Ograc,
 
You shouldn't have to go out of your way for representation. I am only saying that if you need something we are there.
 
P. Rez

 

[Tim Nelson]

I agree except for one thing. I'm talking about the people that put these tickets together. They should care enough about the members to put legitimate candidates on their ticket. To put someone on a ticket to be a AGC just because he is popular and you want his votes, is not being there for the members. I don't care how anybody wants to twist it. I even had a guy come to me that was running for AGC on one of the past tickets and tell me he didn't know the first thing about it, and that he just needed the money. But yet the person that put him on a ticket, wants you to believe they are in it for the members.

And you will support each candidate on your ticket, personal feelings aside.  I'm not busting ya, I'll support each candidate on the ticket I'm going to be on as well.  It's up to the membership to decide which candidate is strong enough to represent it against management.  I haven't ever seen a ticket that blends the best of each ticket.  It's tough to put tickets together due to political alliances. Maybe it's the system.  I'd prefer dissenting voices for argument and reason instead of kumbuya sessions.  Folks on one ticket will decline from being on another ticket, etc.  When I decided to join Robyn's ticket, I don't think me and her had much history of agreement on things but I respect her passion and she has done a solid job representing the 1,000 PCE members at ORD.  We put egos aside and joined for the betterment of the membership.  I'd like the day when our eboard is filled with folks who can't be controlled by one guy/woman. Sorry but voting unanimously to recommend a United TA to the membership by using a highlight sheet isn't putting the membership's interest at heart.
 
As far as experience,  that may actually be something that would favor any opposition ticket since the membership has seen the sorta experience that has produced the United contract [at least from the United airline members perspective is what I'm guessing]. Just my opinion.

 

[Kev3188]

I'd like the day when our eboard is filled with folks who can't be controlled by one guy/woman. Sorry but voting unanimously to recommend a United TA to the membership by using a highlight sheet isn't putting the membership's interest at heart.

When that day comes, labor'll be better for it (that goes for any E-board, really).

Any team needs a degree of constructive conflict and/or dissent in order to make truly wise decisions. Otherwise, it's just a free fall into groupthink...

 

[charlie Brown]

And you will support each candidate on your ticket, personal feelings aside.  I'm not busting ya, I'll support each candidate on the ticket I'm going to be on as well.  It's up to the membership to decide which candidate is strong enough to represent it against management.  I haven't ever seen a ticket that blends the best of each ticket.  It's tough to put tickets together due to political alliances. Maybe it's the system.  I'd prefer dissenting voices for argument and reason instead of kumbuya sessions.  Folks on one ticket will decline from being on another ticket, etc.  When I decided to join Robyn's ticket, I don't think me and her had much history of agreement on things but I respect her passion and she has done a solid job representing the 1,000 PCE members at ORD.  We put egos aside and joined for the betterment of the membership.  I'd like the day when our eboard is filled with folks who can't be controlled by one guy/woman. Sorry but voting unanimously to recommend a United TA to the membership by using a highlight sheet isn't putting the membership's interest at heart
 
As far as experience,  that may actually be something that would favor any opposition ticket since the membership has seen the sorta experience that has produced the United contract [at least from the United airline members perspective is what I'm guessing]. Just my opinion.

Couple of things, you say it's up to the membership, but let's face it, most of the membership have no idea who they are voting for on a ticket. That's why I say the people leading these tickets needs to do a much better job on choosing their candidates. Also who says someone has to agree to be on both tickets? Nothing stops a person from putting them on a slate as far as I know. Most people takes someone else's word on who they should vote for. I for one will make sure people know when people are running just for a position or when they are running for the members. To tell someone you want them to vote for a person for AGC that hasn't even done a step 2 hearing before. Come on. Get real. That's not for the membership I think you would have to agree?

 

[ograc]

Couple of things, you say it's up to the membership, but let's face it, most of the membership have no idea who they are voting for on a ticket. That's why I say the people leading these tickets needs to do a much better job on choosing their candidates. Also who says someone has to agree to be on both tickets? Nothing stops a person from putting them on a slate as far as I know. Most people takes someone else's word on who they should vote for. I for one will make sure people know when people are running just for a position or when they are running for the members. To tell someone you want them to vote for a person for AGC that hasn't even done a step 2 hearing before. Come on. Get real. That's not for the membership I think you would have to agree?

Nominations for DL 141 & 142 Officers will take place in February 2014. Have the people leading the ticket for the incumbent DL 141 slate chosen their candidates? Have the people leading the opposing slate of candidates for nominations chosen their candidates? The membership should be given ample time to research candidates' profiles prior to their local lodges' nomination. Otherwise; we operate like Capital Hill... voting on legislation that no one has had the time to read and review. This lack of timely information to the membership is the first step toward candidates from any slate, who are in it for themselves, or who lack the experience and involvement, receiving an unwarranted nomination endorsement.

 

[ograc]

And you will support each candidate on your ticket, personal feelings aside.  I'm not busting ya, I'll support each candidate on the ticket I'm going to be on as well.  It's up to the membership to decide which candidate is strong enough to represent it against management.  I haven't ever seen a ticket that blends the best of each ticket.  It's tough to put tickets together due to political alliances. Maybe it's the system.  I'd prefer dissenting voices for argument and reason instead of kumbuya sessions.  Folks on one ticket will decline from being on another ticket, etc.  When I decided to join Robyn's ticket, I don't think me and her had much history of agreement on things but I respect her passion and she has done a solid job representing the 1,000 PCE members at ORD.  We put egos aside and joined for the betterment of the membership.  I'd like the day when our eboard is filled with folks who can't be controlled by one guy/woman. Sorry but voting unanimously to recommend a United TA to the membership by using a highlight sheet isn't putting the membership's interest at heart.
 
As far as experience,  that may actually be something that would favor any opposition ticket since the membership has seen the sorta experience that has produced the United contract [at least from the United airline members perspective is what I'm guessing]. Just my opinion.

When did you decide to join Robyn's ticket? Are you referring to the past DL 141 election? If so... it was Karen's ticket and by then it was too late. The voting membership had already been divided three ways; thus ensuring Delany's ticket a victory by default. The dissention vote was there. It was divided among the two opposing tickets. In the end; it was a three horse race that worked in favor of the incumbent candidates. 

 

[ograc]

Orgac I hear ya regarding the yrs long process as for my grievance im still waiting for an answer as to whether or jot an arb hear will be schd and the place. Text numerous time n still no answer but im one of a few that wont give up

cb, prez I sure hope you and the nc team can make the new contract as clear as possible as theres soo much gray areas

robbed,
who is the AGC representing your grievance regarding the timely scheduling of mediation or arbitration?