Obama against hiding behind Executive Privilege before he was for it

Read the letter. Assuming what Holder is saying is true, Issa is requesting documents well out side the scope of the investigation and Issa knows it. It seems that he is playing this for political gain. If Holders letter gains traction, this could come back to bite Issa in the butt. I'm not a huge fan of Holder but Issa is barely above Gingrich on the respectability totem pole. Issa is one of those people who if he told me it was sunny out side, I'd get a second opinion.

No argument here except that perhaps you're a bit to hard on Mr Issa. While they may hold different views on certain levels, Holder & Issa are both highly partisan political animals.
 
I am not referring to Issa's behavior regarding FF but rather all the previous lies he has said. His lies regarding his military past being the first ones that come to mind. He was also arrested for caring a concealed weapon, He helped get Davis recalled and put in Schwarzenegger into office (yeck). I guess the fact that he bought his house seat cannot really be held against him as everyone does that. I just find him to be an above average sleaze ball.
 
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I am not referring to Issa's behavior regarding FF but rather all the previous lies he has said. His lies regarding his military past being the first ones that come to mind. He was also arrested for caring a concealed weapon, He helped get Davis recalled and put in Schwarzenegger into office (yeck). I guess the fact that he bought his house seat cannot really be held against him as everyone does that. I just find him to be an above average sleaze ball.

Isn't debating the relative level of sleaze a bit like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic?
 
Perhaps I spoke to soon. Here is Holders letter to Obama requesting that Obama exert EP. It seems to make sens from a legal stand point. I do not know enough about the internal workings of an administration to know if it would really have the effect that Holder is saying.


I still do not like it. How ever it does point more and more toward a fishing expedition by Issa during an election year. Politics as normal.

Document Cloud

Seems what Holder is arguing is that Issa is wanting documents not realated to Fast and Furious but rather the deliberations that took place in the administration after the fact. Holder is arguing that the deliberations fall under EP (seesm to be right about that) and nothing to do with the investigation of FF in which all the documents have been turned over.

It does not seem like the media is latching on to this. They seem to like Issa's version better as it presents more blood in the water.

These are the documents requested :

"The subpoena seeks, among other things, all communications regarding the operation from 16 top Justice officials, including Holder, his chief of staff, Gary Grindler, and the head of the department's criminal division, Lanny Breuer, as well as correspondence on specific dates to and from the former head of the ATF's Phoenix field division, William Newell."

"It also asks for all documents and communications referring or relating to the murder of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata, including any correspondence outlining the details of Zapata's mission at the time he was murdered."

"The subpoena seeks, among other things, all communications regarding the operation from 16 top Justice officials, including Holder, his chief of staff, Gary Grindler, and the head of the department's criminal division, Lanny Breuer, as well as correspondence on specific dates to and from the former head of the ATF's Phoenix field division, William Newell.
It also asks for all documents and communications referring or relating to the murder of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Agent Jaime Zapata, including any correspondence outlining the details of Zapata's mission at the time he was murdered."

And most importantly :

"The subpoena asks for correspondence that Justice Department officials had with the White House about the gun trafficking operation, as well as what information was shared by Justice officials in Mexico."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/10/12/issa-issues-subpoena-to-holder-in-fast-and-furious-investigation/

IMO, all of the above relate to "Fast and Furious" and it was a Demorat plan that backfired and now needs covering up !
 
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As I understand it the documents mentioned above were all supplied and are part of the 7000 pages. The contempt charge is for documents that are outside the scope of the investigation.

Also. FF was started by Bush and continued by Obama.
 
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As I understand it the documents mentioned above were all supplied and are part of the 7000 pages. The contempt charge is for documents that are outside the scope of the investigation.

Also. FF was started by Bush and continued by Obama.

Oh let's continue to blame a guy who hasn't been in office for 42 months that's productive.

The docs in question are NOT beyond the scope of the Investigation as apparently they deal with the heart of the issue which is the reaction and discussions made after the INS agent was killed.
 
Oh let's continue to blame a guy who hasn't been in office for 42 months that's productive.

The docs in question are NOT beyond the scope of the Investigation as apparently they deal with the heart of the issue which is the reaction and discussions made after the INS agent was killed.
Obama still has a ways to go to catch up with bush use of executive orders
Bush 1st term use 171 Obama 127 to date
 
Oh let's continue to blame a guy who hasn't been in office for 42 months that's productive.

The docs in question are NOT beyond the scope of the Investigation as apparently they deal with the heart of the issue which is the reaction and discussions made after the INS agent was killed.

From what I have read, president says that internal discussing are beyond the scope and why EP was exercised.

Did Bush not start the program?
 
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From what I have read, president says that internal discussing are beyond the scope and why EP was exercised.

Did Bush not start the program?

As far as what the POTUS says, I say "Who Cares he isn't a King". Even if in his arrogance he thinks he is. Bluntly put if you and I were the subject of a RICO investigation and our conversations post murder of a known associate we certainly wouldn't be accorded any "Priviledge"! So since the POTUS is nothing more than a citizen of the Republic then he too must be called into account and if Bush ordered the original program he too should be included in the subsequent investigations.

If Issa is on a witch hunt the disclosure would prove it. Yet instead we have Obama exert Executive Priviledge.
 
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As I understand it the documents mentioned above were all supplied and are part of the 7000 pages. The contempt charge is for documents that are outside the scope of the investigation.

Nice try nitwit !

It's abundantly clear you understand very little about the use of Executive Privilege. You’re so far out of touch on the use of EP you haven’t even acknowledged the real issue surrounding Obama’s use of it!

No one is disputing the fact that Executive Privilege covers communications made directly to the president and among white house advisers. What’s not in the least bit clear is if the Executive Privilege trumps Congress’s right to subpoena internal communications within an US Government AGENCY.

Contrary to your usual uninformed belief, Eric Holder has not released all US Department of Justice (an AGENCY of the US Government) inter-office communications regarding the Fast and Furious operation. . . . and we all know why!

You’re more than welcome to purse all Executive Privilege orders issued over the span of US history. When you find a case where EP was used to protect an entire Government Agency from producing internal communications pursuant to a congressional subpoena, let me know.


Here’s Senator Obama’s view on the use of Executive Privilege: " ...executive privilege generally depends on the involvement of the President and the White House."

Did Bush not start the program?
You're clueless!

Yesterday, President Obama issued an EP because of “the involvement of the President and the White House” in an operation that authorized the transfer of over 2500 automatic and semi-automatic weapons to Mexican drug lords and Cartel members without authorized consent or knowledge of the Mexican Government! Fact of the matter is the Obama Adminisration illegally supplied weapons to the enemies of the Mexican Government.


Just one of many differences, the Bush Justice Department sought consent and approval from the Mexican Government to conduct operation “Wide Receiver” (as well as all other such operations)! The Obama Adminisration conceived and authorized "Fast and Furious" operation acted without consent of the Mexican Government and well above international law.

Oh and BTW, a US Border Patrol Agent wasn’t killed with an automatic weapon supplied by the US Government during cooperative execution of operation “Wide Receiver” or any other Bush ordered gun walking operation! Not that you really give a #### about the death of a US Law Enforcement Agent, you’re too busy carrying water and covering up the stool left behind by the the most inept, corrupt and mental challenged Administration in recorded American history.

I'm abosutely positive the family and friends of US Border Patrol Agent Terry could really care less that it's an election year!

Cover for the corupt ####-in-chief all you want, an Agency of the US Government acted as an accessory in the homocide of a US Law Enforcement Agent. Eric Holder doesn't even have the balls to accept responsiblity for his agencies crimes much less offer an apology to the Terry family.
 
Obama still has a ways to go to catch up with bush use of executive orders
Bush 1st term use 171 Obama 127 to date

You have a link to prove your outrageous claim and do you even know the difference between an Executive Order and Executive Privilage?
 
From what I have read, president says that internal discussing are beyond the scope and why EP was exercised.

Did Bush not start the program?

Wellllll...if the "president says", then all must be honest and above board?....Spare us all, please. The whole point of having seperate houses of government power is to provide actual checks and balances. A suppression of requested documents from one of said houses must reasonably be scrutinized.

Consider that Nixon was essentially booted just from Watergate and his lying BS afterwards...and that sorry fiasco certainly didn't get presumably large numbers of people killed....
 
As far as what the POTUS says, I say "Who Cares he isn't a King". Even if in his arrogance he thinks he is.

Exactly so sir.

To my thinking; any suppression of requested information from the Senate or Congress had better damn well involve the most dire issues of national security....Period. The last time I looked; the USA wasn't at war with Mexico. Where are any issues of national security hiding out in this mess....?
 
As far as what the POTUS says, I say "Who Cares he isn't a King". Even if in his arrogance he thinks he is. Bluntly put if you and I were the subject of a RICO investigation and our conversations post murder of a known associate we certainly wouldn't be accorded any "Priviledge"! So since the POTUS is nothing more than a citizen of the Republic then he too must be called into account and if Bush ordered the original program he too should be included in the subsequent investigations.

If Issa is on a witch hunt the disclosure would prove it. Yet instead we h ave Obama exert Executive Priviledge.



The conversation between two people under investigation is not what Obama is claim EP. Holder is asking Obama to claim EP to protect advice given to him by advisers. This is similar to a law/client confidentiality if you are looking for an 'equivalent'.
I seriously doubt a disclosure would prove anything. Obama has disclosed everything regarding his BC's and people are still claiming that he is not a US citizen. The documents could be disclosed but if Holders argument is valid then it will damage the separation of powers and checks and balances and all the republicans will claim is that something was missed.

Personally I hope EP does not apply in this case but that will have to be determined by the courts.
 
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