OCT/NOV 2012 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[Ramp Rogue]

What is a decent paying job? Or better yet, what is decent pay?

Rogue.....

 

[roabilly]

What is a decent paying job? Or better yet, what is decent pay?

Rogue.....

Depends on where you are Rogue...

In China... a buck or two a day is "decent"... and you get your own dorm room within walking distance of your job!

 

[freedom]

The Immigration Reforms the President ordered are a TEMPORARY solution to an immense problem. Attempting to identify almost a million of these non-citizens is virtually impossible without this legislation. Further, it would cost the US taxpayers hundreds of millions using the antiquated “identify and deport” system, while yielding few… if any results.

The legislation allows for these young people to identify themselves, and become recorded as being in the United States WITHOUT Citizenship. The legislation does not lead to Citizenship… period!

Now I have a question for you… how many Illegal Immigrants do you currently work with in PHX?

i'm shocked that you can't answer such a simple question ..........so i'll ask it again ......

Do you support the president allowing illegal immigrants the right to work in the United States ?

yes or no

 

[freedom]

Freedom-
You talk about "once decent paying jobs", well, who's the ones who made them not decent paying? The people who actually pay the paycheck. They're not illegal, they're the businessman who is looking for the cheap labor, and paying peanuts to the only people willing to take the job. If the employers would keep paying a livable wage, then you would have plenty of 'Americans' lining up to take the job. You're shifting the blame from the cause of the problem, to 'their' solution. Not placing it where it belongs, at the feet of the employer.

Right , so if i run a construction company and i can hire workers for 7.50 an hour , vs 30 dollars an hour with healthcare , i'm going to out of the goodness of my heart pay the higher wage ? meanwhile all of my competition has shifted to the lower paying workers ...

(this is actually something that has happened in califiona , honest employers have been run out of bussiness because they can't compete with the other companies hiring the illegal labor )

Are employers somwhat to blame ? When they knowingly hire illegal workers they sure as heck are , and should be made to face the FULL FORCE of the law ......

but now we won't have to worry about that because they can just hire the illegal immigrants who've been given authorization by our government to compete with Americans for jobs ..

 

[freedom]

Freedom,
You are allowing your vote to be influenced by one "hot button issue". Do you really believe the GOP or Democratic party has immigration legislation as their top priority? Do you believe either party has the definitive answer to this issue? IMO... niether party will make any true or meaningful progress on this issue in the future. My advise to you would be to focus more on which party represents the best interests of the middle class, brown baggin worker who makes an honest wage and benefits like ourselves. Leave all of the empty campaign promises and rhetoric outside of the voting booth. Vote for your future best interests as a union represented airline worker.
ograc

My future best interests are dependant on a functioning country .......did you know ogarc that the low end estimate for the illegal immigrant population is 11 million ...Are you aware of the costs assoicated with illegal immigration ? year after year we bring in more and more cheap labor ... Why is this ? why when so many of our people are unemployed do we keep slacking off when it is clearly time for action , time to shrink the labor pool ...

There is no greater threat than unabated illegal immigration to the blue collar worker in the US .... and the ONLY reason we baggage handlers haven't felt the horrific sting of being undercut by this cutthroat cheap labor force is because they don't have the documentation to work out on the ramp , but you can bet your (whatever you want to bet ) that if they COULD find a way to work out here , there's no way we'd be able to mantain our levels of pay and compensation ..

"IMO... niether party will make any true or meaningful progress on this issue in the future."

while i'm not sure if there will be progress on the issue , and of course by progress i mean the removal of illegal immigrants from our country , i sure as heck am not going to vote for the party that gives away my country like it's a free buffet ....

it's too bad , i thought unions were suppose to stand up for what was right , to stand up for the workers ... but our unions in this country have completely bowed down to any issues that might require even the least bit of backbone ..

 

[roabilly]

i'm shocked that you can't answer such a simple question ..........so i'll ask it again ......

Do you support the president allowing illegal immigrants the right to work in the United States ?

yes or no

There are approximately 11.5 million Illegal Immigrants in this Country. According to the Migration Policy Institute, about 800,000 illegal immigrants are enrolled in American schools from kindergarten through the 12th grade! Yes… we have ALREADY spent tax dollars educating them, and it would cost additional tax dollars to find them, and deport them.

Now… I’ll answer your question… if you answer mine…

1) How many Illegal immigrants have interfered with your pursuit of a career and advancement in your current occupation?

2) How many Illegal Immigrants do you currently share a break-room with?

 

[freedom]

There are approximately 11.5 million Illegal Immigrants in this Country. According to the Migration Policy Institute, about 800,000 illegal immigrants are enrolled in American schools from kindergarten through the 12th grade! Yes… we have ALREADY spent tax dollars educating them, and it would cost additional tax dollars to find them, and deport them.

Now… I’ll answer your question… if you answer mine…

1) How many Illegal immigrants have interfered with your pursuit of a career and advancement in your current occupation?

2) How many Illegal Immigrants do you currently share a break-room with?

1. no illegal immigrants have interfered with the pursuit of my career ... (yet , because thank god they can't work on the ramp due to not having papers )

2. we have ZERO illegal immigrants in our break rooms ...

oh , and just so we are clear i support E-VERIFY for EVERY SINGLE EMPLOYER IN THE COUNTRY ,and i want to see it used on EVERY SINGLE WORKER ...........

See roabilly , we don't have to FIND and remove every illegal immigrant , we must only deny them employment in our country ( which is what e-verify does ) ...

Hey if we only had a few hundred thousand illegal immigrants then i wouldn't be bothered by the issue , but we have several million....and remember how they used to say that "their just here to work " and then they would go home again ....well how is it we have 800K illegal immigrant children in our public schools ? you do know that illegal immigrants don't pay #### for taxes right ? They are literarly draining us dry .... and i can't stand the fact that our entire country is complacent ... even labor just sit's there and takes it ..

We are union memebers , it's our duty to prevent cheap labor from outsourcing Americans WITHIN our own country ... It's people like you who come up with excuses for them .... "oh we educated the children here " ... yeah , so let's let them compete with our own children for jobs that we don't even have ....... that makes NO sense at all ..

 

[roabilly]

Freedom...

Your argument is so flawed it is ridiculous… according to your convoluted logic… if Illegal Immigrants could somehow “magically acquire” Airport Credentials... the Collective Bargaining Agreement would be negated, and the pay scales would go down under the status quo!

Dude… The reality is this… the GOP wants to eliminate the RLA, and make EVERY state in the Union a right to work state! If they get their way, and succeed in this endeavor … your assumption may then prove plausible… because then... and ONLY then, would we have no bargaining unit to prevent it!

Fortunately, for Fleet Service, this is not possible due to legal protections offered by the right to Union representation under the very Railway Labor Act, which the GOP wants to amend and/or abolish!

It must be lonely out in space…

 

[roabilly]

We are union memebers , it's our duty to prevent cheap labor from outsourcing Americans WITHIN our own country ... It's people like you who come up with excuses for them .... "oh we educated the children here " ... yeah , so let's let them compete with our own children for jobs that we don't even have ....... that makes NO sense at all ..

So Freedom…

I guess you want me to believe that you have the capability of combing through 11.5 million Illegal immigrants that have NO written records of existence, find them, and deport them all with NO expense to the American Taxpayer?

At least with the reforms… they would “willingly” identify themselves, and be then be subject to future legislation concerning their fate as citizens, or non-citizens.

 

[roabilly]

Ohhh... I almost forgot to answer your question... YES... I support legislation that would provide incentive for Illegals to come froward, and identify themselves with little, or no additional costs to the American Taxpayer!

 

[Kev3188]

As to you KEV i am well aware that the republican party has been somehwat complicit in brining in illegal immigrants , and or looking the other way .......

but that in NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM means it's OK to allow illegal immigrants the right to work in our country when our own people can't find decent paying jobs ..

I can never support the democrats as long as they support brining in people who will ALWAYS work for less ...and what i'm saying is a fact , they will ALWAYS seek to displace us , to take jobs that were once decent paying , and drive down the wages through competition with illegal workers .... then later after most Americans have abaonded that particular industry , be it janitorial work , construction , what have you , they will turn around and MOCK us by saying their just doing the jobs that Americans are too lazy to do .......... which i might add is B/S because those jobs that used to pay a livable wage have been driven down pay wise to almost nothing , and then it's no wonder Americans don't want to do construction for 7.50 an hour with no benfits ..

i don't know where all of you have been lately , but the president has been pushing a mini DREAM act that at first was estimated to grant work permits to "only" around a few hundred thousand illegal immigrants , then that number rose to 700K , then it was revised again to 1.2 million ... the last number i heard that could be able to seek employment through this act is close to 2 MILLION ..............

So, in your mind granting amnesty to ~3 million people is merely "somewhat complicit," but close to 2 million is unthinkable?

Okay then...

 

[john john]

Freedom-
You talk about "once decent paying jobs", well, who's the ones who made them not decent paying? The people who actually pay the paycheck. They're not illegal, they're the businessman who is looking for the cheap labor, and paying peanuts to the only people willing to take the job. If the employers would keep paying a livable wage, then you would have plenty of 'Americans' lining up to take the job. You're shifting the blame from the cause of the problem, to 'their' solution. Not placing it where it belongs, at the feet of the employer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guest_worker_program
The Guest Worker Program is a program that has been proposed many times, including by U.S. President George W. Bush's administration,[1][2]

 

[Jester]

Increased voter base? Since when are they granting the right to work and vote? Is that fox's latest narrative, or just what arpaio wants you to think?

I see you do not live anywhere close to the Southwest part of the US... for many Latinos who are legal US citizens, they vote in sympathy to their family members are in the US illegally and work illegally. It is a huge voting block for the Democrat party, and that's not just a Fox talking point. Furthermore, when and if those illegal residents become naturalized citizens, which party are they most likely to support into the future?

People can be critical of Romney 47% equation, but it is simple political math being calculated on both sides... who is going to vote for the candidate, who is going to vote for the opposition, and how does a candidate or party increase their voter base.

 

[700UW]

During the Bush administration there was a law passed to prosecute employers that knowingly hire illegal immigrants, yet it wasnt enforced.

 

[blue collar]

I see you do not live anywhere close to the Southwest part of the US... for many Latinos who are legal US citizens, they vote in sympathy to their family members are in the US illegally and work illegally. It is a huge voting block for the Democrat party, and that's not just a Fox talking point. Furthermore, when and if those illegal residents become naturalized citizens, which party are they most likely to support into the future?

People can be critical of Romney 47% equation, but it is simple political math being calculated on both sides... who is going to vote for the candidate, who is going to vote for the opposition, and how does a candidate or party increase their voter base.

Sure some of the votes are 'sympathy' votes, but did you ever stop to think that many of those votes are because one party doesn't blame everything on illegals? Sure, illegal immigration is a problem, but the two sides have differing views of how to deal with it. Latinos in general will side with the dems because of the way the gop treats them, with the deport them all attitude and laws like sb1070. If you have brown skin then you need papers. Yeah, that's a good way to get voters. Btw I grew up in the southwest, so I know what it's like there