OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Phoenix]

Where is the reply?

Evidently in the same work file as the PHX crew news video production.

 

[Move2CLT]

Evidently in the same work file as the PHX crew news video production.

Have you checked Wings boo boo? Not there? No?

Oh, and the good lawyers don't pad their bills - Marty is a great example there, but I can see your paranoia with how Seham robbed the living #### out of you.

 

[Move2CLT]

Or is that the only side AOL let you see?

No, we see it all because we're not USAPA. Szymanski hasn't made the effort yet and I'm wondering why.

 

[Phoenix]

Where is the reply?

None needed. The USAPA lawyers understand who is in negotiations with the company, something Marty understands too, thus his plea to shape the USAPA negotiating proposals. But of course you knew that, thus your rhetorical question. 😀

 

[luvthe9]

You forgot to mention the other stuff that Silver put in there as well.

I'll wait.

It was not important..... the NIC is gone. keep those donations coming in though.

 

[luvthe9]

I can see your paranoia with how Seham robbed the living #### out of you.

Maybe, but he WON you LOST.

 

[Black Swan]

Wonderful love letter between two lawyers:

Patrick J. Szymanski
PATRICK J. SZYMANSKI, PLLC 1900 L Street, NW, Ste. 900 Washington, DC 20036
Re: The Nicolau Award
Dear Pat:


October 12, 2012


We now have Judge Silver’s final Order and Judgment in the US Airways, Inc. v. Don Addington, et al. litigation. The Order and Judgment are quite informative. Judge Silver found that USAPA is bound by the Transition Agreement, a point USAPA has been disputing for a number of years. (See Order at pp. 6-7.) Judge Silver also found that when USAPA became the pilots’ new collective bargaining representative, “it succeeded ‘to the status of the former representative without alteration in the contract terms.’” (Order at p. 7.) Again, USAPA has been contending for years that it was not ALPA’s successor. Finally, the Court unequivocally found that for USAPA to deviate from the Nicolau Award, it can do so only if the deviation is “supported by a legitimate union purpose.” (See Judgment.)



In my opinion, the most instructive paragraph in the Order for everyone, USAPA, the East Pilots, the West Pilots and US Airways is found on page 8 of the Order. It reads in full as follows:



“Of course, in negotiating for a particular seniority regime, USAPA must not breach its duty of fair representation. Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so. By discarding the result of a valid arbitration in negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Disregarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.”



The Communication Committee just issued a release on Judge Silver’s order that is yet another example of USAPA’s failure to fully and fairly inform the pilots (both East and West) on this subject. This release totally ignores that Judge Silver made it very clear that USAPA takes great risk if it implements a contract that deviates from the Nicolau Award. The pilots deserve better.



The time has come for USAPA and the East Pilots to be fully and fairly informed about the status of the Nicolau Award and the significant risk USAPA runs if it deviates from that Award without legal justification. We understand that the leadership of USAPA and others, perhaps even including yourself, have been telling the East Pilots that USAPA is now free to either use or propose any seniority list it wants. Those statements are not true and it is time that USAPA and the East Pilots fully understand this.



The parties to the Transition Agreement agreed in advance that the Nicolau Award would be the final resolution of the seniority dispute. USAPA can deviate from the Nicolau Award if, and only if, the deviation is “supported by a legitimate union purpose.” USAPA has now had almost 50 months of litigation to propose a “legitimate union purpose” for deviating from the Nicolau Award. The reasons proposed by USAPA in the Addington trial were rejected by a civil jury. In the current US Airways, Inc. litigation, USAPA failed to come forward with an argument that was acceptable to Judge Silver for deviating from the Nicolau Award. The reason for USAPA’s failure is that there is no “legitimate union purpose” for deviating from the Nicolau Award. There never has been and there never will be.



This in fact is the current state of affairs and USAPA and the East Pilots need to understand that. This will pose grave problems for USAPA when it restarts negotiations with US Airways pursuant to Section 6 of the RLA. It will also be a looming problem for USAPA if the merger with American Airlines is concluded and the overall pilot seniority integration issue is resolved through a McCaskill-Bond arbitration. In either scenario, USAPA must use the Nicolau Award unless deviating from the Award is “supported by a legitimate union purpose.” That appears to be an impossibility.



Judge Silver’s Order contains powerful language on many issues but especially if the final integrated pilot seniority list is eventually decided through McCaskill-Bond arbitration. Yesterday Judge Silver wrote that an “impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result.” Judge Silver’s words have significance now but surely will have significance later for whatever panel of federal arbitrators eventually decides the final pilot seniority list after a merger. That panel of arbitrators, more likely than not, will be contemporaries of George Nicolau, so Judge Silver’s words of endorsement will, more likely than not, have a meaningful effect on those future arbitrators.







USAPA’s desire to depart from the Nicolau Award is even more complicated now than before. Now, US Airways “must evaluate any proposal by USAPA with some care to ensure that it is reasonable and supported by a ‘legitimate union purpose.’” In other words, US Airways cannot remain neutral with respect to whatever it is that USAPA proposes by way of a seniority list if US Airways wants to avoid potential liability for USAPA’s future DFR. US Airways now has a duty, imposed by Judge Silver, to evaluate USAPA’s proposal “with some care to ensure that it is reasonable and supported by a legitimate union purpose.” That was not the case before yesterday.



The East Pilots have not had an improvement in pay, benefits, etc., for almost ten years. The West Pilots have gone without similar adjustments for more than seven years. The experiment initiated by Steve Bradford and others in May of 2007 has proved to be an utter failure. It has done nothing but wreak financial hardship on all of the pilots – both East and West. The time has now come to put the dispute over the Nicolau Award behind so our clients, their families and others impacted by this dispute can start to receive the benefits that are long overdue.



I urge you to make sure that USAPA and the East Pilots are fully and fairly informed of the current state of affairs. The Nicolau Award is the current pilot seniority list, because it was submitted by ALPA, USAPA’s predecessor, to US Airways in December, 2007, which then accepted it. There is no “legitimate union purpose” for deviating from the Nicolau Award. As noted above, there never has been nor will there ever be one.
USAPA needs to put the Nicolau dispute aside once and for all by facing reality and accepting the fact that it cannot dishonor the Award because there is no “legitimate union reason” for doing so. Please urge USAPA to bargain the best CBA it can with US Airways, then put the Nicolau Award in Section 22 unaltered, and then let the pilots vote on it. In other words, let the chips fall where they may. It is the only way to end their dispute.






Sincerely,



Marty Harper​

Give him a new name, he earned it MARTYR HARPER.
Cannot believe you guys continue to fund this guy after what he has done. Worked with Wacky Wake, and got lured into a case over judicial harm, when there was none. Then after he got his bogus ruling, didn't have the sense to back off until the 9th leashed him.
This guy was even worse than an ambulance chaser- he went for damages before the accident even took place. Nice.
Do yourselves a favor, and hire a labor lawyer. This guy is taking your money time and again, and goes against the wall 0 for 3.

 

[Claxon]

Wonderful love letter between two lawyers:

Patrick J. Szymanski
PATRICK J. SZYMANSKI, PLLC 1900 L Street, NW, Ste. 900 Washington, DC 20036
Re: The Nicolau Award
Dear Pat:


October 12, 2012





"Judge Silver’s Order contains powerful language on many issues but especially if the final integrated pilot seniority list is eventually decided through McCaskill-Bond arbitration. Yesterday Judge Silver wrote that an “impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result.” Judge Silver’s words have significance now but surely will have significance later for whatever panel of federal arbitrators eventually decides the final pilot seniority list after a merger. That panel of arbitrators, more likely than not, will be contemporaries of George Nicolau, so Judge Silver’s words of endorsement will, more likely than not, have a meaningful effect on those future arbitrators."


Sincerely,



Marty Harper​

Enjoy your future "pro bono" service Mr. Harper

http://jamhoff.com/PDFs/PostHearingBrief.pdf

Contemporaries like Mr. Bloch and Mr. Harris who quoted Mr. Stowe?

"Having considered the pertinent facts and circumstances, Arbitrator Stowe concluded as follows:

From the early days of the labor movement the basic principle of seniority has been that the employees with the greatest length of service should hold competitive rights over employees with less length of service. The ratio-rank method, when applied to the circumstances of this case, yields a decided advantage to former National employees while disadvantaging former Pan Am employees. In the opinion of the Arbitrator, the ratio-rank method, when applied in the manner proposed by the MLAC, affords an unacceptable importance to the maintenance of relative rank without any compensating recognition to length of continuous service. It provides a substantial windfall to most of the former National employees simply by virtue of the fact that they were employed by National rather than by Pan Am, while at the same time, completely ignoring the greater length of service of former Pan Am employees. I find, therefore, that the proposed ratio-rank method for merging the seniority lists, under the particular circumstances of this case, does not yield a result which is fair and equitable."

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Give him a new name, he earned it MARTYR HARPER.
Cannot believe you guys continue to fund this guy after what he has done. Worked with Wacky Wake, and got lured into a case over judicial harm, when there was none. Then after he got his bogus ruling, didn't have the sense to back off until the 9th leashed him.
This guy was even worse than an ambulance chaser- he went for damages before the accident even took place. Nice.
Do yourselves a favor, and hire a labor lawyer. This guy is taking your money time and again, and goes against the wall 0 for 3.

It is HILARIOUS and sad at the same time, not ripe, DUH!, The Bobbie B's DAD golf thing with WAKE and MARTY, sad, and how many AA furloughs ex TWA at AWA? All we can say after that letter, DONATE, DONATE, DONATE, ! To your ARMYOFUNHIREABLES!

 

[EastUS1]

Please urge USAPA to bargain the best CBA it can with US Airways, then put the Nicolau Award in Section 22 unaltered,....

"Please urge USAPA to..............put the Nicolau Award in Section 22 unaltered..." I'm almost starting to feel sorry for this fellow. Pretty please...just put the nic in anyway...willya' huh?...Puhleeeaze!!??

 

[Zone5]

Give him a new name, he earned it MARTYR HARPER.
Cannot believe you guys continue to fund this guy after what he has done. Worked with Wacky Wake, and got lured into a case over judicial harm, when there was none. Then after he got his bogus ruling, didn't have the sense to back off until the 9th leashed him.
This guy was even worse than an ambulance chaser- he went for damages before the accident even took place. Nice.
Do yourselves a favor, and hire a labor lawyer. This guy is taking your money time and again, and goes against the wall 0 for 3.

Selectively "cherry picking" portions of Judge Silver's order, may serve to fire-up the clients and loosen up their wallets some more, but for the sake of accuracy it might have been useful to make mention of the last paragraph of Judge Silver's Order:

"At the present time, it is not possible to predict what will result from the collective bargaining negotiations. Thus, the Court cannot grant US Airways prospective immunity from any legal action by the West Pilots. But based on the representation at oral argument that the seniority list is unlike other matters addressed in collective bargaining, it is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate for the Nicolau Award.'


seajay

 

[luvthe9]

Give him a new name, he earned it MARTYR HARPER.
Cannot believe you guys continue to fund this guy after what he has done. time and again, and goes against the wall 0 for 3.

And the really nice thing is the west funds Szymanski also.

 

[N924PS]

But based on the representation at oral argument that the seniority list is unlike other matters addressed in collective bargaining, it is unlikely the West Pilots could successfully allege claims against US Airways merely for not insisting that USAPA continue to advocate for the Nicolau Award.'


seajay

Gee, and all this time USAPA has said seniority is negotiable just like crew meals...

The West Pilots can still successfully allege claims against USAPA for not fairly representing them.

As a matter a fact, so could I, if I had the money. USAPA is only representing a narrow band of the seniority list at the expense of the rest of the pilots, East and West. The fact that they have been unable to place a contract to vote on in front of the pilot group affirms this. Delay...delay ...delay......

You asked for it, you got it, in spades

 

[mrbreeze]

You have often demonstrated what an ass you can be. That's why you should be ashamed to use your daughter for an avatar. Further proof of what an ass you are.

Ames,

All of this "ass" name calling started when Clear was being an ass about the PBGC settlement.....none of his business and he was clearly trying to provoke emotions.

If you want to be the police on this board, you should interviene and help your pal uhaul....now there's a proven case for you to work with, instead of trying to label me...., go for the real problem.

 

[Move2CLT]

Maybe, but he WON you LOST.

He did? Is that why you guys fired him? Because he won?

God damn you're an idiot.