OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Yeah, i understand....you are good at that, regardless of the logic involved.

breeze

There was no logic in your thought hence the idiocy of your post hence me pointing it out.

 

[Move2CLT]

So everyone should be denied a vote and contract improvements until you're securely in the seat you feel entitled to? Do you grasp the concept of DFR?

There it is!!

Breeze doesn't trust his own.

 

[Move2CLT]

M2C, we are not fighting, simply having a lively discussion.

Except for Claxon, who I believe has serious and real emotional issues, the rest of the nut-jobs are really great guys.

Although they probably see me as far from rational.

I guess I've been having lively discussions as well all this time.

As for Claxon (MM/luv), you guys really need to pull those guys to the side and tell them to STFU.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Actually I have great empathy for my colleagues, but since I first saw Lee Seeham in action at a USAPA road show, I felt you would simply be chasing windmills by jumping on his bandwagon. And I felt like throwing out ALPA simply to negate the Nicolau Award was not the right thing to do.

So we'll have to continue to agree to disagree.

Safe travels across the big ocean....

As a west pilot, I have empathy as well. Even after all that's transpired. I cannot accept the way it was handled, starting with the JNC pullout. What is the normal human reaction to an attempt at submission? It's a sad deal all the way around. Many in the east blame Nic. I blame temptation and being human. And higher powers that were more than willing to let em run.

The westies as people are no better, no more righteous. And the easties are no worse, no more evil. I wish we had been the same size.

 

[Pi brat]

Although they probably see me as far from rational.

I certainly haven't, just very frustrated that this food fight has left you dangling in the wind for you last years and I do get that.

This pilot group is much like our country. Most see things as one way or another with little or no room for compromise. And God forbid you do acknowledge that you see something the way the other side does because then you are a traitor.

But I think the vast majority can come together and agree on one thing that is abundantly clear and this is that uhaul is a complete and utter TOOL.

 

[Move2CLT]

Dear Patrick,

[background=rgb(252, 252, 252)]Please urge USAPA to bargain the best CBA it can with US Airways, then please put the Nicolau Award in Section 22 unaltered..[/background]

Your Dear Friend, Marty

Marty,

We won and you lost. We can bargain as we please and there's nothing you can do about it.

Please negotiate with us.

P.

 

[Move2CLT]

But I think the vast majority can come together and agree on one thing that is abundantly clear and this is that uhaul is a complete and utter TOOL.

LMAO!!

You such an ####, but at least you make me laugh.

 

[Pi brat]

Thus the entire reason for final and binding arbitration. To avoid the legal system and all of it's delays and expenses.

If the east had only lived up to your word.

At the time I thought so. I told a west friend of mine that I believed that if USAPA was elected that we would have at least 5 years of fighting, lawsuits and lost opportunities. What a thing to be right about.

But that doesn't mean that I thought we should just roll over and let the Nic slip by for a few shillings. I did and will go to my grave believing he got a lot of his decision wrong. We had other avenues to fight because of the T/A. I thought we should have stayed in JNC talks, but shot for the moon. That if we were going to have to take the Nic that we vote down a T/A enough times to bring about some changes to it, or make contractual changes to help those hurt by.

But, the majority of my peers disagreed and elected USAPA. One big reason was the behavior of ALPA and the fear that they would put the entire east into trusteeship and force an inferior contract with the Nic down our throats. They said a new union could renegotiate every section of the new contract and it seems they were correct, if we can sell the LUO(P).

Who knows? But, since we have gone down this road of civil war I see value in seeing it through and I think the officer election of last year was a validation of that. Only about 1/3 of our pilots voted for the team that said they WOULD give in on Nic/DOH.

My peers that voted for USAPA have been right on several legal counts, but I still don't see it as a slam dunk. I'd just like to see us get to a joint ratified contract, deal with DFR II and get on with it. I think we need to hear from the company, and the PHX crew news and latest filing from the company seem very odd to me.

 

[Pi brat]

LMAO!!

You such an ####, but at least you make me laugh.

Good. After this last presidential debate that was my purpose, even if it's true.

 

[spike99]

Gee, and all this time USAPA has said seniority is negotiable just like crew meals...

The West Pilots can still successfully allege claims against USAPA for not fairly representing them.

As a matter a fact, so could I, if I had the money. USAPA is only representing a narrow band of the seniority list at the expense of the rest of the pilots, East and West. The fact that they have been unable to place a contract to vote on in front of the pilot group affirms this. Delay...delay ...delay......

You asked for it, you got it, in spades

Which narrow band would that be, unless of course it's the band you're in.

 

[Move2CLT]

... latest filing from the company seem very odd to me.

Nothing odd about the filing. They're preparing for the appeal.

 

[Phoenix]

... the PHX crew news and latest filing from the company seem very odd to me.

PHX crew news? What do we know about it? Or is that your point?

As far as the appeal, Doug would miss an easy opportunity to keep delaying any substantive talks with USAPA if he doesn't appeal.... even if he expects a merger in the very near future, he may as well toss a few bucks to the lawyers for an easy method of controlling the pace with USAPA.... and of course if Judge Silver's judgment binds the West from suing until AFTER a ratification of a new contract in a merger, then its easy to see why the company would want the whole West Class to be barred from suing rather than just the six named defendants. Either way Doug benefits from the correction and an appeal.

 

[Pi brat]

PHX crew news? What do we know about it? Or is that your point?

That's my point except that a west friend of mine, who wasn't there but had another friend there, said that Parker did not give a definitive answer on an appeal and kind of backtracked about "accepting" the Nicolau award. That's kind of a long line of friend to friend so I'd like to hear for myself.

 

[Pi brat]

Nothing odd about the filing. They're preparing for the appeal.

So they want to make sure the west is still a class in case they appeal and the 9th says they have to use the Nic? Don't want any loose westie out there to sue for DOH? Where's that shocked smiley. Maybe, I won't say they aren't going to.

 

[Move2CLT]

No. Silver incorrectly closed out the west class so the company had it corrected. One less reason to hang up the appeal process.

Strictly a technicality.