First of this year. But the PID was not used in the Nic award.
OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion
- Thread starter Admin
- Start date
- Status
First of this year. But the PID was not used in the Nic award.
When? The day the Nic came out? Unless you are senior to around #550 west then you relative position has increased on the Nic and most likely will every year.
It's the updated Nic a west pilot did last year. Don't you have it?
But for the top of the seniority list you were wrong then and now.
U haul was furloughed a few years ago. Dave ODell now has better career prospects.
By no means. Your: "Move2CLT, on 25 October 2012 - 02:09 PM, said: I, boo boo, have done nothing." was directly quoted as shown. In your now-very-well-established propensity for outright lying: You would have us all believe your added words "regarding this list" were originally there, but removed/"edited".....Nice try. "I, boo boo, have done nothing regarding this list." would have served my purpose equally well.
Given that both Prechill and Ames have recently tried their hardest to make us imagine that AWA had some/ANY degree of stringent hiring standards...well....you may wish to reconsider the flood of fine "material" you put forth here...just sayin' 😉 "Yawn. Back to chewing your cud" for but one example, fails to materially establish that fantasy....neither does the sad fact you found a job there at all.
No matter really. Feel free to simply respond to this: "In other words, when asked the following...you've got nothing whatsoever to offer in response: What have you personally EVER done that allows you to feel magically "entitled" to flagrantly disrespect the years worked/flown of others?" Knock yourself out, and I promise that no one will at all feel any need to "edit" your fine thoughts on that issue. Don't strain yourself while squirming....
CallawayGolf
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 1,920
- Reaction score
- 1,961
My apologies for using the wrong date terminology. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.
As we've discussed before, this is a invalid analogy. Two separate airlines merged (reverse acquisition from a legal SEC perspective) and that irrevocably changed the future of the employees at both now former entities. The fact of the matter is the west operations up until 9/27/2005 were expanding and pilots were anything but stagnated on the AWA list. Conversely, the east AAA operations were shrinking with an unprecedented number of furloughs for a major carrier. Then with the key event happening on 9/27/2005 things began to change all related to the merger. The east began to grow and recall furloughs while the west began to shrink and even furlough pilots instead of hiring them like they were prior to 9/27/2005.
Notice how significant that date of 9/27/2005 is. Everything changed for the better for the east and for the worse for the west. Absent the merger this change in trajectories for both east and west would not have been as it was and yet you want to say that post-merger the east is better off without integrating. The problem is that without the merger all signs indicated that liquidation was the next step for AAA leaving 100% of east pilots with no seniority and no job. You apparently are advocating for the east taking all of the benefits of the merger without taking the cost that was supposed to go along with it, namely a full integration of both pilot groups according to a pre-defined process that mas mutually agreed to beforehand.
Do you contest that? If so; on what basis?
We have, and I think I made a good case why you are wrong. FACT: Moving forward, there is a major shift in relative position from west to east. You say that absent the east was gone. Okay, probably so, but we didn't go away and absent a merger when would EF had hit the 76I F/O or A330 F/O place on the AWA list? Absent this merger, according to the guy with the purse strings, EF would have been without a job. But, we did merge, the east didn't liquidate and EF kept his job. Nicolau said he should get a windfall going forward, something the ALPA merger policy said should be avoided and the reason Gill didn't do the same with PA/NA.
I've never advocated the east taking all the benefits of the merger. Show me where I have or retract.
CallawayGolf
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 1,920
- Reaction score
- 1,961
How could anyone contest that the east is better off now than they were prior to 9/27/2005? The point is that they are better off because of the transaction and that transaction included an agreement to integrate the two separate pilot groups according to a pre-defined process that included final and binding arbitration. Now that the final and binding arbitration is done the east not only wants to ignore the final and binding portion of that but also say hey look how bad it would be for us if we actually had to live up to the agreements we made. Not only that but PI wants us to think that there is something wrong with E.F. taking the position he was awarded by a final and binding, multually-agreed upon process rather than there being something wrong with the eat pilots for not honoring their agreements. Cognitive dissonance? A complete dearth of integrity or shame for failing to abide by what was agreed to? Something is seriously wrong with PI's faulty example all right, but not with E.F. or a west pilot's claim to a position that was awarded to him based on an objective, independent and unbiased third-party neutral who had the full legal authority to make the ruling he did.
Yes, "awarded" indeed. The problem is that you've done nothing to have EARNED it! "Cognitive dissonance? A complete dearth of integrity...."? I'll leave such profound notions to you for your further consideration. 😉
CallawayGolf
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 1,920
- Reaction score
- 1,961
You want a retraction when I didn't quote you but rather used the term "Apparently" to so as to indicate that by inference your position yields such a conclusion. I didn't use quote marks and never said you actually said those words.
How about you show me how wrong my inference was. The east has benefited by recalling all furloughs while the west has furloughed pilots since the merger who were active on 9/27/2005. Do you wish to share equally in that east-only benefit or is that retain that as a benefit to the east and a detriment to the west? The east has more wide-body aircraft and more international destinations post merger which is currently a east-only benefit. Do you wish to share that benefit with the west equally or do you wish to retain that as a east-only benefit? Which post-merger benefit do you wish the west could or think the west should share in that they currently are not because they are east-only post-merger benefits?
Do you deny that they are now not working through anything other than their own choice? Have they not all declined the opportunity for flying in the east? Is the east not, even as we speak, hiring for positions they could choose to take?
Cry us all a river! Umm....Need a few spare boxes of tissues anyone?
CallawayGolf: "Do you wish to share equally in that east-only benefit or is that retain that as a benefit to the east and a detriment to the west?" "...share equally..." ? That would be fine by me. The nic insanity does no such thing. You could have had a fence that allowed the west to bid east on DOH. Instead...well...you've now got a fence...period. More tissues now?
Wrong again. I have no problem with EF taking the position he was given when all conditions of the T/A are met. I have a problem with George Nicolau for giving it to him. The west pilots didn't do anything wrong, they just played by the rules. But I would like to see them admit that he gave them a windfall,
CallawayGolf
Veteran
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2009
- Messages
- 1,920
- Reaction score
- 1,961
The term "award" is simply the language of the arbitration process. Both groups and all pilots are the beneficiaries of the "award". Seniority isn't earned it is rather a metric of relative position against your peers. The only way to gain seniority is for forces beyond your control or your level of contribution to change your relative position on a list. Not quitting or getting fired is the only action you can take related to seniority.
Move2CLT
Veteran
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2011
- Messages
- 6,048
- Reaction score
- 8,631
East doesn't think so. He seems to think we took it.
And the only windfall befell you guys because you kept your jobs
Be grateful.
- Status
