One of the Most Destructive Forces Against the AMT

Checking it Out

Veteran
Apr 3, 2003
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AMFA Farm-Out Negotiations at NWA



As you know hindsight is always 20-20 and some members that are Anti-Union will never agree. I believe what is happening today in the industry is a direct result of what NWA accomplished at the bargaining table with AMFA. NWA has always been very skillful at negotiating contracts and with the experienced IAM negotiators; was always able to secure core work, seniority and language, etc. Although the “93†agreement contained concessions, It was Concessionary most members took for granted that the language the IAM fought for over the years many AMFA members are still enjoying now. The “93†agreement made great strides in the language side of the contract.
On the other hand, after 40 years! AMFA still does not have the experience in negotiating and therefore NWA took advantage of AMFA as everyone can see today. Many ardent AMFA members continue to brag how they have Seham and McCormick to protect them from NWA’s attorneys at the bargaining table. What really happened! they were at the table once in awhile! Since they were being paid by the hour and the costs were to extreme, especially for the smaller locals. The smaller locals had to assess their membership to pay back the national for their share of negotiating expenses or are gearing up for the 2005 contract.
Many members also continue to brag how AMFA had open negotiations to its members. Although personally I do not have a problem with allowing members to attend negotiations, the way AMFA organized it, allowed NWA to use this to their advantage. The problem was that members only attended the meetings once in awhile and as every one knows, issues change daily at the bargaining table. The company used the members to bounce off their ideas. The members that returned to the floor with information as to what was discussed quickly became rumors and turned out not to be very accurate. AMFA claimed they were giving out information on negotiations, and although the IAM should have done a better job, and United Airlines. District 141M did a great job informing their members on their contract negotiations, AMFA really did not give out much information other than what article they were discussing. As a District 149 Officer, John Spadino discussed allowing members into negotiations had they the opportunity to negotiate with the company.
The language did change and It would be irresponsible to say that no Aviation Technician or Related would have been laid off during the current crisis in the Airline industry and with the current Bush administration. I do not believe the cuts in the AMT workforce at NWA would have been as deep.
A commentary titled “SUBCONTRACTING†by Larry Loftus on January 2002. This document goes into great detail as to what changed in the contract that gave NWA an advantage to farm-out work. If you take the time to read the commentary you will see how NWA manipulated negotiators in believing they negotiated farm-out protection. You may have heard the old saying, “ if you tell a lie enough times, people will believe the lieâ€. Well, in my opinion that’s what happened during AMFA’s attempt to sway the membership at NWA. AMFA maintained that their was no farm-out language in the “93†agreement that prevented NWA from subcontracting out work.
That statement was not true, Tom Pedersen an AMT at NWA wrote a commentary titled “LAYOFFS AND FARMOUTS†on January 17, 2002. In Tom’s commentary, he gives accounts of arbitration awards that the IAM had won with the language that was in the contract before AMFA changed it, or more accurately, When AMFA added the 38% language to it. The reason so many members believed there was no farm-out language was because NWA was farming out work, but not nearly to the extent that they are farming out work now.

The key is what can be won in arbitration. An Arbitrator will only rule in labors favor if the Union is being injured.
The problem with all the farm-out grievances filed in the mid to late 90’s is that no one was injured in the Arbitrators eyes. There were no layoffs; members were working plenty of overtime so therefore no one was hurt. The farm-out grievances that the IAM won were when members were laid off and therefore the membership was injured.
So, to answer the question, That change alone has had a catastrophic effect on the membership at NWA and is the reason why so many Union Brothers and Sisters are on the street today.
There are many other reasons why AMFA has failed in properly representing their membership. If you were to read the commentaries titled “ AN INFORMED UNION MEMBER IS A STRONG UNION MEMBER!†by Larry Loftus NWA AMT dated May 2002 and “THE AMFA NEGOTIATING PROCESS, IS IT FAIR TO EVERYONE?†by Larry Loftus dated February 13, 2002 , you will see what AMFA has been and is currently failing in.
It takes trained representatives, to uphold the contract and not to be afraid to file a grievance regardless of the grievance backlog. Yes, sometimes it takes a while to get grievances to arbitration, and yes some mistakes are made along the way. But you learn from your mistakes and improve your representation to the members.
On the other hand, after 40 years in existence AMFA still does not train its Shop Representatives, tries to talk the membership into not filing a grievance, fails to give out information on arbitrations and fails to give the membership accurate percentages on the subcontracting issue. What AMFA seems to be good at is selling a dream. Its no surprise that NWA is continuing to violate the agreement more vigorously than ever before. There is no one there to really stop them.
Its up to everyone who has taken the time to read this commentary to take the time and become informed. Read the commentaries listed above. Ask an amfa organizer or representative about the issues and get the facts.

After One Mistake the Industry has changed forever! Become Informed and you will see what the destruction amfa has caused in the Industry! Open your eyes before it’s to late!

Negotiations is a skill and takes experience, something amfa is unwilling to learn! To them it is all about money for the Companies and Sub-Contractors.




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Very interesting that the IAM is now coming here to try to sell their BS. You mentioned those die hard IAM people at NWA but the fact remains that the IAM has lost ground both in negotiations as well as representation everywhere in the industry including Canada. Please go back to Lake Flacid and peddle your wares amoungst yourselves.

The mechanics have spoken yet you refuse to hear
"THE IAM IS NO LONGER WELCOME AS A REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE CLASS AND CRAFT OF MECHANIC AND RELATED!!!"

BTW - The "and related" is due to the IAM insistance at the NMB hearings.
 
'the-machanic.net'.............

Lame at best.
However, originality was never your strong suit.
That's why you are 'OUT'!!!

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UT
 
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #4
Your Missing the point! The intent is to show how amfa has been successful at eliminating the Heavy Maintenance at the Major Airlines and allowing increase farmouts overseas while doing nothing!

Oh yes, they claim they are talking to Senators but you need to look at the records! No show at the Hearings or during debates on the Senate or House floor!

They are even linking over to the AFL-CIO websites! To mislead the members while Laying off at the Bases!

TWU SOLIDARITY!
 
How's the IAM card drive at NWA going? Have they made it past twenty cards received yet? Maybe the TWU can make a run at it and show them how to organize someone.
 
The IAM 1993 contract allowed farmout with no limits. It merely provided for a joint committee of the IAM and NWA to seek ways to bring back outsourced work. Neither the committee - which never accomplished anything, if it indeed ever met - nor the IAM's alleged "arbitration wins" ever brought any work back in house. The language they negotiated provided no penalties and allowed NWA to circumvent the scope clause with impunity. When we attempted to file grievances on farmout under the IAM, they just disappeared.

It is interesting to note that while the IAM claims many "arbitration wins" on the subject of farmout, there is no record of any such grievance ever going to arbitration at NWA. Under the IAM there were only twelve arbitrations allowed per year and NWA knew all they had to do to block language arbitrations over issues such as farmout was to fire more than twelve people per year.

The fact is that in the last year under the IAM - 1998 - NWA had more heavy check lines farmed out than they do today. The process of outsourcing heavy maintenance at NWA began when the IAM negotiated the 1993 agreement and they continue to pursue that agenda today.

AMFA, while unable to completely fix the damage the IAM had done to the NWA agreement, was able to place limits on it. Rather than pretend the language wasn't broken, as the IAM did, they did something to fix it. That, coupled with the agressive arbitration schedule AMFA has enforced since certification, provides the NWA technicians with much better representation than they had under the IAM.

I, and the vast majority of the NWA technicians, do not miss the IAM and prefer AMFA. It's no secret why the IAM card drives die at NWA - they can't stand on their record so they try to spread fear instead.
 
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #7
Please tell us why, as you claim. Their is more work at NW, but upto 50% of the Mechanics and related are laid off?

Please explain to us about the Iron clad layoffs at NW and about the increase in farm-outs at Alaska nearing the 70% range?

Please explain why Kevin McCormick and Lee Seham are the ones who show up most often at the Organizing Drives?

amfa works with management to eliminate Heavy Maintenance, Please explain what amfa is doing to stop this Injustice?

Please explain why amfa has the highest percentage of Farmout of all the majors?

TWU SOLIDARITY!
 
I'm rather impressed by the AMT wage scale that the IBT has at UPS, but the folks slinging mud at AMFA probably don't want to get the IBT and scope language together in the same discussion. Must be AFL-CIO courtesy or something.

Like I implied above, if AMFA was so bad at NWA, why are they still there? The membership at NWA has already shown that they can get rid of a union that doesn't represent their interests.
 
Checking It Out, with your concise knowledge of union affairs you are an asset to AMFA. Please keep up the good work. Even RV4 could not write your posts as well as you do to help his goal of changing representation at AA.
 
Checking on "Checking it out" -
Please if you would in the future at least try to post the truth instead of the "fear and lies" attitude that the industrial unions are so famous for.

Layoff Comparisons AMFA vs IAM
AMFA2000 pdf File

June 2 (Bloomberg) - United Airlines and US Airways Group Inc. are turning over more aircraft maintenance work to outside contractors to reduce costs, moves that may pressure rivals to cut expenses to remain competitive

May. 29 (Charlotte Observer) US Airways may send jet work outside union. US Airways says it is evaluating whether to contract out to a third-party shop for heavy maintenance on its new fleet of Airbus jets

USAir and UAL the only remaining major IAM represented airlines are leading the way in concessions and layoffs.

In an attempt to deceive the IAM is at it again with their usual strategy of half truths and outright lies. Layoffs have hit NWA AMFA employees, however the numbers are approximately 2500 or 25%.

AMT reductions at United Airlines are approximately 6000 or 50% (You can verify this with any IAM representative you see wandering the work areas. They are finally on the floor trying to save their union positions.)

AMFA AMTs have stood strong against the demands of NWA for concessions and they have retained the wages they fought for and won. The NWA contract raised the pay standard for Aircraft Mechanics across the aviation industry.

Meanwhile at UAL:

A320, 767,757 737 and 747HMV work eliminated
Cabin Equipment and Component jobs outsourced to non-union shops
Aircraft Door, Raft and Slide work gone
No accountability for farm out limits or procedures
Bottom line: 6000 UAL AMTS out of work
UAL 13% pay cuts and 50% of the Mechanics laid-off
USAir 18% pay cuts and 50% of the Mechanics laid-off

ALL "Heavy" maint can be farmed out at UAL now, the remainder must fall within the guidelines of "20% of the TOTAL MAINT BUDGET", approx $1.9 billion, of which the work that is farmed out already is used to formulate. Nice double whammy, thanks to the IAM.

The more AMFA grows the less of you to ride the coat tails of technicians. You industrial union types lose dues and the advatange of being tied to technician wages. You consistently attack anything where the technicians try to improve any process, either within your unions or when they try to seperate.
 
CIO,

Is there some type of AFL/CIO school that you folks go to to repeat the same disinformation?

"District 141M did a great job informing their members on their contract negotiations"

Here is the contract, vote on it or Da'Judge will abrogate the contract.
I do not call that Information, do you? Or were you regarding the
contract negotiated by the PEB? What input did the membership have on
either contract?

As for as our 'farmout' language:
20% of our maintenance budget - Minus HMV (because it's gone!!!)
The maintenance budget includes OSV costs.
So as we incur more costs to purchase spares
(increased cycle time = increase in spares)
these costs will be added to the 'budget'.
By the time this is over, we'll only have line stations.

IMHO,
UT
 
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #12
Here is how Amfa at NW is fighting the farmout and these individuals from united, keep it up soon thanks to amfa influence and the members voting the change in the language soon your Heavy Maintenance will be gone also and hold the same class as Alaska with the highest Percentage of farm-outs in the Industry! Keep spilling your rehetoric amfa will also give away line jobs.


Liz Fador wrote Aug 03,2003 in the Star Tribune;
Despite a no-layoff clause in the mechanics' contract, Jeche was among 1,685 Northwest mechanics who lost their jobs as jittery passengers opted not to fly during wartime.
Now Jeche, 57, said he is "an old guy starting over. . . . I will not get called back. I'm being realistic."
Other mechanics at Northwest have experienced a similar kind of realism. Their union, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA), has been decimated by layoffs related to the Iraq war, terrorist attacks, severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and a weak economy.
Yet there's another threat to mechanics that continues to loom: Northwest's growing use of outside contractors who have absorbed work that was done by union mechanics.----

This is familiar at Northwest and is becoming more apparent at other carriers amfa claims to represent.

----Northwest, like other major airlines in financial distress, has expanded its use of outsourcing to save money, and there are no signs of reversing that trend. Eagan-based Northwest has cut about one-third of its mechanics in the wake of a lingering airline revenue slump. Many Northwest mechanics earn $55,000 to $65,000 a year.

This number has reached almost 50% of the class and craft if you add the additional layoffs earlier.
Jim Atkinson also agrees with NWA;

----Jim Atkinson, president of Bloomington-based AMFA Local 33, said Northwest made a conscious business decision to use those major events as an excuse to cut union mechanic jobs and shift a higher percentage of maintenance work to outside vendors. "We had good strong language for job protection,----

Jim Atkinson also agrees amfa is willing to outsource work in order to save money for NWA;

----AMFA's Atkinson said Northwest lowers its labor costs by one-third to one-half when it chooses to "lay off our people and farm out our work."----

This is what some of the farm-outs amfa and NW has agreed to;

----Northwest reported that it primarily out sources work on its DC-10s, 747-200s and DC-9s. "These older aircraft fleets have peaks and valleys in heavy maintenance scheduling as fleet sizes shrink due to aircraft retirements. For an in-house maintenance operation to be efficient, the workflow must be constant,"----

This is what amfa is doing for its members to protect their jobs;

Paul Volker, AMFA Local 33 legislative officer, has been talking to members of Congress and their staffs about safety and security issues.
Ask “How many times has amfa been at the Senate or House floor during discussions?

Jeff Mathews wants you to know amfa agrees with this assessment;
----Jeff Mathews, AMFA's contract coordinator, said the union wants the traveling public to know that considerable maintenance work is done in foreign repair stations.

Amfa supports legislation on this issue, this is why Senator Dayton requested information be taken off amfa website and has now linked to the AFL-CIO site in which they do not Support.
Liz Fador wrote;

----AMFA supports federal legislation to require workers at foreign repair stations to undergo the same type of drug and alcohol tests and background checks that are mandatory for U.S. airline workers. The bill also would subject the repair stations to inspections without notice and security audits.----

Amfa supports this issue from a far distant land;
----At this point both sides see outsourcing as a survival issue. Management has asked the mechanics union to agree to more outsourcing, to help the airline cut costs. Mechanics say the issue of where and how Northwest planes are repaired is not up for negotiation.----

Amfa does not care about what is farmed out for several reasons;

Amfa lacks the funds
Amfa lacks the knowledge
Amfa lacks the integrity
Amfa lacks will power
Amfa lacks experience
Amfa lacks ability to stop the company
Amfa just allows the farm-outs to continue
Amfa knows the more members laid off the less chance another union can receive enough cards to replace them.

Amfa is nothing more than a sub-contracting outfit themselves controlled by the McCormick and Seham Advisory Group!
TWU SOLIDARITY!
 
  • Thread Starter
  • Thread starter
  • #13
Thanks to amfa's influence United will hold the honor of having the highest Percentage of farm-outs in the Industry next to Alaska and NWA.
Just think in a very short time I can see amfa allowing the Line Mechanics being farmed out also. Keep living in a dream world! reality is amfa is allowing this to happen by changing language and scope clauses.

Liz Fador wrote Aug 03,2003 in the Star Tribune;
Despite a no-layoff clause in the mechanics' contract, Jeche was among 1,685 Northwest mechanics who lost their jobs as jittery passengers opted not to fly during wartime.
Now Jeche, 57, said he is "an old guy starting over. . . . I will not get called back. I'm being realistic."
Other mechanics at Northwest have experienced a similar kind of realism. Their union, the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA), has been decimated by layoffs related to the Iraq war, terrorist attacks, severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and a weak economy.
Yet there's another threat to mechanics that continues to loom: Northwest's growing use of outside contractors who have absorbed work that was done by union mechanics.----

This is familiar at Northwest and is becoming more apparent at other carriers amfa claims to represent.

----Northwest, like other major airlines in financial distress, has expanded its use of outsourcing to save money, and there are no signs of reversing that trend. Eagan-based Northwest has cut about one-third of its mechanics in the wake of a lingering airline revenue slump. Many Northwest mechanics earn $55,000 to $65,000 a year.

This number has reached almost 50% of the class and craft if you add the additional layoffs earlier.
Jim Atkinson also agrees with NWA;

----Jim Atkinson, president of Bloomington-based AMFA Local 33, said Northwest made a conscious business decision to use those major events as an excuse to cut union mechanic jobs and shift a higher percentage of maintenance work to outside vendors. "We had good strong language for job protection,----

Jim Atkinson also agrees amfa is willing to outsource work in order to save money for NWA;

----AMFA's Atkinson said Northwest lowers its labor costs by one-third to one-half when it chooses to "lay off our people and farm out our work."----

This is what some of the farm-outs amfa and NW has agreed to;

----Northwest reported that it primarily out sources work on its DC-10s, 747-200s and DC-9s. "These older aircraft fleets have peaks and valleys in heavy maintenance scheduling as fleet sizes shrink due to aircraft retirements. For an in-house maintenance operation to be efficient, the workflow must be constant,"----

This is what amfa is doing for its members to protect their jobs;

Paul Volker, AMFA Local 33 legislative officer, has been talking to members of Congress and their staffs about safety and security issues.
Ask “How many times has amfa been at the Senate or House floor during discussions?

Jeff Mathews wants you to know amfa agrees with this assessment;
----Jeff Mathews, AMFA's contract coordinator, said the union wants the traveling public to know that considerable maintenance work is done in foreign repair stations.

Amfa supports legislation on this issue, this is why Senator Dayton requested information be taken off amfa website and has now linked to the AFL-CIO site in which they do not Support.
Liz Fador wrote;

----AMFA supports federal legislation to require workers at foreign repair stations to undergo the same type of drug and alcohol tests and background checks that are mandatory for U.S. airline workers. The bill also would subject the repair stations to inspections without notice and security audits.----

Amfa supports this issue from a far distant land;
----At this point both sides see outsourcing as a survival issue. Management has asked the mechanics union to agree to more outsourcing, to help the airline cut costs. Mechanics say the issue of where and how Northwest planes are repaired is not up for negotiation.----

Amfa does not care about what is farmed out for several reasons;

Amfa lacks the funds
Amfa lacks the knowledge
Amfa lacks the integrity
Amfa lacks will power
Amfa lacks experience
Amfa lacks ability to stop the company
Amfa just allows the farm-outs to continue
Amfa knows the more members laid off the less chance another union can receive enough cards to replace them.

Amfa is nothing more than a sub-contracting outfit themselves controlled by the McCormick and Seham Advisory Group!
TWU SOLIDARITY!
 
"CIO"
Please go and educate yourself regarding representational elections. Those on furlough get to vote. Many technicians are in fact leaving the field because they se it for what it presently is, a dead end. Wage concessions, lay offs and maybe work for another five to ten years and hope that there is enough seniority to withstand the next down turn under repressive wage rules.
Farm outs are being addressed on many levels not just the unions. Did you happen to read the last DOT IG report? I thought not. If you industrial unionists spent just half the time you spend trying to promote your union on educating members to their rights and supporting them you may have something. The latest about removing three presidents for not signing a "oath of unmitigated alliegence" is just one more reason this dinosaur called industrial unions must leave the ranks of aviation maintenance FOREVER.
For example the IAM language stated that outsource could not cause the lay off of any represented employee. So much for that much. BTW EVERY lay off at NWA is voluntary excepting of course for the "Force Manure" which is being fought.
Dont go away mad JUST GO AWAY.
 
CIO,

Thanks for your support.

The lies, deceit, and treachery that the IAM portrayed was their downfall (as it was at NWA & UAL).

With all of their (YOUR) rhetoric, they (YOU) forgot the issues.

“Serve the membership or the membership will boot your ass outâ€￾.

Nuff said,
UT
 

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