Our Reward

[Hackman]

So, Arpey was in TUL today. How many of you from TUL actually had the guts to express your dissatisfaction of the exec pay-outs to "The Man"? You do a lot of barking and whining here....had your chance.

Did you take it or not??????

I don't think anyone could get in close enough to Mr. Our-pay, with the "Kneepad Serenade in twu Minor" taking center stage.

What a performance!!!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

You mean to tell me you had Arpey in your hot little hands and you did and said NOTHING????!!!!! The mayor, David Boren, councilman, Senators, the media, THE CEO OF AMERICAN AIRLINES FOR GOODNESS SAKE.....and yet you stood silent. h34r: h34r: h34r:
Boo-hoo, boo-hoo, BOO-FREAKIN' HOO!!!!
Go cry to your mommas!!!
I spy something yellow and it ain't the snow in Tulsa.

...........................................................

Hey Bill,
Be honest now.

Do YOU think that those PHONEY AA and TWU "---- SUCKERS" would have had the BALLS to try to put on a "TUL SHOW/BBQ-HOE DOWN" in JFK ???

NH/BB's

 

[High Speed Steel]

"By uniting with others who do the same type of work, you will have a stronger voice on the job and in your community—and you can help create a better future for yourself and all Americans."

That is what AMFA is all about. And that scares the crap out of the international AND airlines.

ken, you have it all wrong. amfa was nothing more than a "trivial menace", to the TWU International.

And furthermore. I don't think it is the airlines that are scared of the amfa.

amfa, is their best friend.

 

[Hackman]

ken, you have it all wrong. amfa was nothing more than a "trivial menace", to the TWU International.

Really??? Is that why the twu had to get the compAAny to help them lie to the NMB and stop the membership from voting???

If AMFA was so "trivial" as you state, why not have a vote and get it over with???

The twu would win hands down, right bubba???

 

[High Speed Steel]

The twu would win hands down, right bubba???

YEP, bubba

 

[Hackman]

YEP, bubba

Let's have a vote!!!! Wanna bet???

 

[High Speed Steel]

Let's have a vote!!!! Wanna bet???

What am I gonna win?

 

[Bill]

I don't think anyone could get in close enough to Mr. Our-pay, with the "Kneepad Serenade in twu Minor" taking center stage.

What a performance!!!

How would you know. You weren't there. He "mingled" for close to an hour Hackman. Lots of folks, lots of hard-working, dedicated union members were able to speak to him.


You really should speak a little more "grown up" Hackman. You make yourself look.....well......(left to the imagination)

 

[Bill]

It is not the goal of saving money or creating revenue that I oppose, I think this is a great idea.

It is the shared reward and lack of negotiated benefit to the membership in exchange that makes by blood boil and pressure rise.

I have no doubt that AA can make money doing maintenance for third parties, and I also believe keeping their own maintenance in-house is the right choice.

I just cannot for the life of me wonder why this wasn't an option when AA wanted $620 nillion in concessions and the "lawyers were loitering on the BK Court Steps" for 3 months. As it is, we gave the concessions, and the millions in savings with nothing to show for it. We didn't really "save the jobs", through attrition, the employment levels have dropped significantly.

I can only image what the private conversations that management has regarding our representation sound like. No damn wonder AA spent so much time, effort, and money to protect the TWU from being replaced.
It just so happens, that I was with my Mother as she had emergency surgery this morning and so I wasn't even at work to enjoy/refuse the BBQ or get a speak session with Arpey.

When it comes to my family or speaking up to save your ass from yourself. The decision was easy. As a matter of fact, given my mother's present health state, I find your antogonistic remark about my "momma" very offensive and down right RUDE.

I have never been afraid to stand and speak my mind!

So go piss up another tree.

I do apologize Informer....just an expression. I wish your mom a speedy recovery.



In response to your first statements.....noone that I know is happy with the pay-outs the execs will receive. You don't hold that position to yourself. But here is my understanding and reasoning. At the time things were being negotiated (by all 3 unions not just the TWU!!!) the airline industry as a whole was in very bad shape. I bet you cannot find one person in this whole world who thought that American Airlines would come out the way they did. There are many different factors to consider when giving credit to the stock prices. The unions are not fortune tellers. How could we know that stock prices would exceed everyones expectations? So to say we did this to ourselves with bad negotiating is just a false statement.

Trying to divide rather than conquer has never been a recipe for success. TUL working together process has been successful. Contrary to popular belief, that my friend is what helps us get our foot in the door come negotiation time. If we take your route, disgruntled, uncooperative, vigilant, not giving a damn about whether the company succeeds or not, do you honestly think that will help come time to negotiate a new contract? Do you think voting in some vigilante, my-way-or-the-highway loafers will accomplish anything at this point? I know good an well that most of you here don't like Burchette or any of the other officers or board members who are for this working together process. But tell me, what benefit would we get from voting in someone who wants to take things a whole other direction...foot loose and fancy free, the company can kiss my ass??? I know you don't like to hear this but Dennis Burchette and his officers and board deserve a lot of credit for sticking this out and for "rallying the troops" to do so. How easy do you think it is giong to work everyday to hear the complaints, the bitterness from some of the members because they see no shared sacrifice? The leaders of Local 514 see no immediate shared sacrifice either. They live it just as you live it. I get so sick of the whining and complaining that goes on here. Placing blame where blame does not lie. TUL has accomplished something great. I myself give credit to those officers for standing their ground and for not letting personal feelings impose on the task at hand. I give credit to the members who managed to accomplish great things under the circumstances. It is these actions that will give us leverage. Do you not see the big picture here? I know I am way high on this soap box but at some point a man gets tired of being shot down when in reality it's this man (and many otheres like him) who is keeping everyone above water.

I know good and well that the hatred for the TWU will continue on these boards. It will always be something....we can't vote him in or I don't like her or the TWU is in bed with the company. But at some point there comes a time to realize that that's just it....IT WILL ALWAYS BE SOMETHING!!

 

[Hackman]

How would you know. You weren't there. He "mingled" for close to an hour Hackman. Lots of folks, lots of hard-working, dedicated union members were able to speak to him.
You really should speak a little more "grown up" Hackman. You make yourself look.....well......(left to the imagination)

How do you know I wasn't Billybob??? Dedicated union members. Like the ones who twice voted not to build a union hall and had one shoved down their throats anyway???

You should talk about being grown up.....after talking about someones mother like you did. It makes you look, well, twuish.....

 

[FWAAA]

It is not the goal of saving money or creating revenue that I oppose, I think this is a great idea.

It is the shared reward and lack of negotiated benefit to the membership in exchange that makes by blood boil and pressure rise.

I agree that AA should have offered to share some portion of the $500 million - and a BBQ sandwich doesn't cut it.

Of course, those management stooges or, as I like to call them, Greedy Bastard Republican Management Apologists (GBRMA for short) are gonna say "Well, we did give you employees stock options on 38 million shares that are currently worth $1.275 Billion in profit (above and beyond the $5 issue price). Not our problem many of you sold your chance to participate in the success. If you'd just held on, your current winnings would be worth much more than the total (so far) 2005 and 2006 management performance incentives of about $320 million. In fact, about FOUR times greater. Usually, management bonuses dwarf the gains by the rank and file. Not this time. This time, rank and file were given enough stock to equal $1.275 Billion of gain as of this morning. Oh, you were in a hurry to sell the very first day you were permitted to sell? Jesus. You can lead the rank and file to the buffet - but you can't make them eat."

And ya know what? Lotsa people are gonna agree with management on that one. Two years in a row, top management has claimed its negotiated incentive payments totalling about $320 million. Almost four years ago, the other employees were granted their incentive which is now worth four times management's payouts.

I have no doubt that AA can make money doing maintenance for third parties, and I also believe keeping their own maintenance in-house is the right choice.

I just cannot for the life of me wonder why this wasn't an option when AA wanted $620 nillion in concessions and the "lawyers were loitering on the BK Court Steps" for 3 months. As it is, we gave the concessions, and the millions in savings with nothing to show for it. We didn't really "save the jobs", through attrition, the employment levels have dropped significantly.

I agree that AA's continuation of in-house maintenance is a good thing. For lotsa reasons.

I realize that your idiot union leaders told you that the wage concessions would "save all the jobs." It's too bad they lied to you. Here's what GBRMA said in the 10-Q in May, 2003 on that very issue:

Of the approximately $1.8 billion in savings, approximately $1.0 billion relate to wage and benefit reductions while the remaining approximately $.8 billion will be accomplished through changes in work rules which will result in additional job reductions. The Company expects to incur severance and benefits related charges in connection with these job reductions beginning in the second quarter of 2003. The amount of such charges could not be reasonably estimated at the time of the filing of this Form 10-Q. Wage reductions became effective on April 1, 2003 for officers and May 1, 2003 for all other employees. Reductions related to benefits and work rule changes will be phased in over time. The Company expects total savings from wages, benefits and work rule changes to be approximately $200 million in the second quarter of 2003, $400 million in the third quarter of 2003 and $450 million ($1.8 billion annually) in the fourth quarter of 2003. In connection with the changes in wages, benefits and work rules, the Modified Labor Agreements provide for the issuance to American's employees of approximately 38 million shares of AMR stock in the form of stock options which will generally vest over a three year period (see Note 10 for additional information).

http://www.shareholder.com/aa/EdgarDetail....0&SID=03-00 (page 5)

So, the wage cuts were about $1 billion and the lost jobs would equal the other $800 million. It was no secret at the time that lotsa additional people would be furloughed and that attrition wouldn't be replaced.

About the concessions "saving the jobs." Do you really think AA would still employ thousands of in-house mechanics in Tulsa, Kansas City and Fort Worth if AMR had filed for bankruptcy? Maybe you'd still be employed there. But then again, maybe some non-union hack shop would be leasing the TULE, MCIE and AFW bases (just like at IND, where thousands of UAL mechanics used to work for UAL).

So the concessions didn't "save all the jobs." Maybe they saved yours. And everyone else who belongs to the TWU at AA who fixes airplanes. Was that worth it? Only you can say.

I'm not giving any credit to your worthless union for that hollow victory - AA simply said "Here's your concessions. Enjoy." And it sounds like your idiot union leaders mis-informed you and your co-workers. Wouldn't be the first time union leaders lied.

It just so happens, that I was with my Mother as she had emergency surgery this morning and so I wasn't even at work to enjoy/refuse the BBQ or get a speak session with Arpey.

Wishing your Mother a speedy recovery.

 

[Bill]

FWAAA...what the hell are you talking about? The TWU NEVER said there would be no loss of jobs.

You read what a handful of dissgruntled union members whine and cry about on these boards and believe everything they say. It was those "idiots" (including MEMBERS, also 2 other unions) who chose to fight it out instead of going to BK, what we have all now seen the devastation that has caused and continues to cause.

 

[AMFAMAN]

FWAAA:

I would agree with you on the stock options if they were given in good times, along with a raise. When you take 1/4 of someones income and give them some stock options, most will be forced to sell their options at the earliest point in order to survive.

The second point is regarding the 10Q in May 2003. Sure it says alot of things after the vote, that's when the contract was being written. What we voted on as far as job cuts based on a twu highlight sheet, and what is stated on the 10Q are two different things. I'd post the details, but the twu has killed all the links to the 2003 concessions and the files are too large to upload from my collection.

Finally, if you read the Vermont plan for BK, AA claimed that AFW, MCI, APU, Composites, TAESL, TEO were all to be outsourced for $100 million savings. Why would they get rid of their most profitable maintenance work, the engine shops. They announced about a year ago that TAESL alone was bringing in millions a year in profit, not revenue. If outsourcing everything but MD-80, 737, 757, and A-300 airframes was only $100 million savings over keeping the work, it's no wonder they want to keep it in-house, they got a hell of a bargain with this twu contract. You would have a $100 million in rework alone from these chop shops, and you would lose a bunch of management jobs in the process, something they didn't want either.

 

[eolesen]

you would lose a bunch of management jobs in the process, something they didn't want either.

I'll respectfully disagree with you there. Management had no qualms at all about cutting management headcount.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

ken, you have it all wrong. amfa was nothing more than a "trivial menace", to the TWU International.

And furthermore. I don't think it is the airlines that are scared of the amfa.

amfa, is their best friend.

To an individual who remains ignorant behind an alias it is easy to perceive things as "all wrong" when in fact reality speaks the truth.

If AMFA is indeed "all wrong" where are the representational elections to remove them with a different union?

If the twu is "all right" why did they not win an election at Continental recently?

You claim AMFA was a "trivial menace" to the twu international? Boy, that is a remarkable statement coming from an alias using coward who agrees with inflating an eligability list with DEAD PEOPLE & PEOPLE NOT EVEN IN MY CRAFT & CLASS.

Why should airlines be afraid of AMFA you ask? Well to put it simply to you it is not AMFA they should fear, it is the skilled AMTs that they should respect. But with your twu international owning my contract and NOT allowing elections for int. officers (thereby ensuring no accountability) AA should have no fears. The twu should fear the AMT though.

For your hiding in the shadows of anonymity I will understand how you would fear anything. h34r: