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Passengers Refusing to Board Flight To Munich?

God I hope not! I wonder why in the world any other airline would even consider buying any of this mess at this point. Seems to me the better plan is to just sit back and wait until it self destructs, buy the pieces you want, and start over. From a customer perspective it looks to me like the US operation has gotten so bad there is no hope of fixing it - just let it die a natural death. Hopefully it will be a quick death - I am tired of always having to connect out of PHL to avoid flying on Useless Airways.
We, as employees of this company, many of which are original "US Air" employees, not USAirways, but US Air (there is a difference), take great offence at the Useless Airways remarks. It's old and silly. However, the US Air employees have tried desperately to keep a sense of dignity to our airline. Many of our, especially the senior morning agents, try to operate our gates and ticket counters the way we were trained to many years ago. We cannot help the fact that we are being run by a Podunk (sp) management team, but there are many of us still left that are from the old school and will not surcumb to their mentality.

That being said, if rumors are true (if) that the US side of the airline would merge with UA and the HP side of the airline where to merge with either CO/NW, at least the US side would be with a carrier that has the same business philosophy.
 
What's the alternative genius? At least they are attempting to do something. You think the Airlines were going to do something voluntarily? DUH
OK ZIP code genius
Where were you? When and why this commit came about sorting or driving
I have been from regulation to deregulation to regulation lite I do see reregulation in the cards because the airlines have not lived up to their comment.


Customers First 12 Point Customer Service Commitment
Airlines (USAirways)have agreed a common set of non-legally binding services that will be provided to people who travel with them
ATA members are committed to providing the highest possible level of service to our customers. Each participating airline has published a Customer Service Plan, which is available on their Web site. Copies of those plans have been provided to Congress and the Department of Transportation.
Each participating airline commits to:
1. Offer the lowest fare available
Each airline will offer the lowest fare available for which the customer is eligible on the airline's telephone reservation system for the date, flight and class of service requested.
2. Notify customers of known delays, cancellations and diversions
Each airline will notify customers at the airport and on board an affected aircraft, in a timely manner, of the best available information regarding known delays, cancellations and diversions. In addition, each airline will establish and implement policies for accommodating passengers delayed overnight. A clear and concise statement of airlines' policies in these respects will also be made available to customers.
3. On-time baggage delivery
Each airline will make every reasonable effort to return checked bags within 24 hours and will attempt to contact any customer whose unclaimed, checked luggage contains a name and address or telephone number.
4. Support an increase in the baggage liability limit
The airlines successfully petitioned the Department of Transportation to increase the baggage liability limit.
5. Allow reservations to be held or canceled
Each airline will allow the customer either to hold a telephone reservation without payment for 24 hours or (at the election of the carrier) to cancel a reservation without penalty for up to 24 hours, in order to give customers an opportunity to check for lower fares through other distribution systems, such as travel agents or the Internet.
6. Provide prompt ticket refunds
Each airline will issue refunds for eligible tickets within 7 days for credit card purchases and 20 days for cash purchases.
7. Properly accommodate disabled and special-needs passengers
Each airline will disclose its policies and procedures for handling special-needs passengers, such as unaccompanied minors, and for accommodating the disabled in an appropriate manner.
8. Meet customers' essential needs during long on-aircraft delays
The airlines will make every reasonable effort to provide food, water, restroom facilities and access to medical treatment for passengers aboard an aircraft that is on the ground for an extended period of time without access to the terminal, as consistent with passenger and employee safety and security concerns. Each carrier will prepare contingency plans to address such circumstances and will work with other carriers and the airport to share facilities and make gates available in an emergency.
9. Handle "bumped" passengers with fairness and consistency
Each airline will disclose to a passenger, upon request, whether the flight on which the passenger is ticketed is overbooked, if, within the usual and ordinary scope of such employee's work, the information is available to the airline employee to whom the request is directed. Each airline will also establish and disclose to the customer policies and procedures, including any applicable requirements (such as check-in deadlines), for managing the inability to board all passengers with confirmed reservations.
10. Disclose travel itinerary, cancellation policies, frequent flyer rules and aircraft configuration
Each airline will disclose to the customer: (i) any change of aircraft on a single flight with the same flight number; (ii) cancellation policies involving failures to use each flight segment coupon; (iii) rules, restrictions and an annual report on frequent flyer program redemptions; and (iv) upon request, information regarding aircraft configuration, including seat size and pitch
11. Ensure good customer service from code-share partners
Each airline will ensure that domestic code-share partners make a commitment to provide comparable consumer plans and policies.
12. Be more responsive to customer complaints
Each airline will assign a Customer Service Representative responsible for handling passenger complaints and ensuring that all written complaints are responded to within 60 days. Each airline will develop and implement a Customer Service Plan for meeting its obligations under the Airline Customer Service Commitment. Customer Service Plans will be completed and published within 90 days and will be fully implemented within 6 months. Airline implementation will include training for airline reservation, customer service and sales personnel to enhance awareness of the responsibilities involved in implementation of the Customer Service Commitment and Plans. The Airlines will publish and make available their Customer Service Plans: (i) on airline Internet Web sites; (ii) at airports and ticket offices (upon request); and, (iii) to travel and reservation agents.
 
This was the last orchestrated attempt by major airlines to avoid government acting on screw-ups. At least five years old.

Read what they committed to do and you will find they don't.
 
OK ZIP code genius
Where were you? When and why this commit came about sorting or driving
I have been from regulation to deregulation to regulation lite I do see reregulation in the cards because the airlines have not lived up to their comment.
Customers First 12 Point Customer Service Commitment
Airlines (USAirways)have agreed a common set of non-legally binding services that will be provided to people who travel with them
ATA members are committed to providing the highest possible level of service to our customers. Each participating airline has published a Customer Service Plan, which is available on their Web site. Copies of those plans have been provided to Congress and the Department of Transportation.
Each participating airline commits to:
1. Offer the lowest fare available
Each airline will offer the lowest fare available for which the customer is eligible on the airline's telephone reservation system for the date, flight and class of service requested.
2. Notify customers of known delays, cancellations and diversions
Each airline will notify customers at the airport and on board an affected aircraft, in a timely manner, of the best available information regarding known delays, cancellations and diversions. In addition, each airline will establish and implement policies for accommodating passengers delayed overnight. A clear and concise statement of airlines' policies in these respects will also be made available to customers.
3. On-time baggage delivery
Each airline will make every reasonable effort to return checked bags within 24 hours and will attempt to contact any customer whose unclaimed, checked luggage contains a name and address or telephone number.
4. Support an increase in the baggage liability limit
The airlines successfully petitioned the Department of Transportation to increase the baggage liability limit.
5. Allow reservations to be held or canceled
Each airline will allow the customer either to hold a telephone reservation without payment for 24 hours or (at the election of the carrier) to cancel a reservation without penalty for up to 24 hours, in order to give customers an opportunity to check for lower fares through other distribution systems, such as travel agents or the Internet.
6. Provide prompt ticket refunds
Each airline will issue refunds for eligible tickets within 7 days for credit card purchases and 20 days for cash purchases.
7. Properly accommodate disabled and special-needs passengers
Each airline will disclose its policies and procedures for handling special-needs passengers, such as unaccompanied minors, and for accommodating the disabled in an appropriate manner.
8. Meet customers' essential needs during long on-aircraft delays
The airlines will make every reasonable effort to provide food, water, restroom facilities and access to medical treatment for passengers aboard an aircraft that is on the ground for an extended period of time without access to the terminal, as consistent with passenger and employee safety and security concerns. Each carrier will prepare contingency plans to address such circumstances and will work with other carriers and the airport to share facilities and make gates available in an emergency.
9. Handle "bumped" passengers with fairness and consistency
Each airline will disclose to a passenger, upon request, whether the flight on which the passenger is ticketed is overbooked, if, within the usual and ordinary scope of such employee's work, the information is available to the airline employee to whom the request is directed. Each airline will also establish and disclose to the customer policies and procedures, including any applicable requirements (such as check-in deadlines), for managing the inability to board all passengers with confirmed reservations.
10. Disclose travel itinerary, cancellation policies, frequent flyer rules and aircraft configuration
Each airline will disclose to the customer: (i) any change of aircraft on a single flight with the same flight number; (ii) cancellation policies involving failures to use each flight segment coupon; (iii) rules, restrictions and an annual report on frequent flyer program redemptions; and (iv) upon request, information regarding aircraft configuration, including seat size and pitch
11. Ensure good customer service from code-share partners
Each airline will ensure that domestic code-share partners make a commitment to provide comparable consumer plans and policies.
12. Be more responsive to customer complaints
Each airline will assign a Customer Service Representative responsible for handling passenger complaints and ensuring that all written complaints are responded to within 60 days. Each airline will develop and implement a Customer Service Plan for meeting its obligations under the Airline Customer Service Commitment. Customer Service Plans will be completed and published within 90 days and will be fully implemented within 6 months. Airline implementation will include training for airline reservation, customer service and sales personnel to enhance awareness of the responsibilities involved in implementation of the Customer Service Commitment and Plans. The Airlines will publish and make available their Customer Service Plans: (i) on airline Internet Web sites; (ii) at airports and ticket offices (upon request); and, (iii) to travel and reservation agents.
And who will monitor this genius? Who will enforce it? Actually 110K a year maintaining them, I am sure far better than you. Cheers :up:
 
This is just one shining example of the operational failures that continue to plague US Airways and you can not blame the employees.

You have jumped to conclusions on this one. The crew timed out because the captain did not want to take an MEL on a start valve. A common MEL approved by the FAA that simply requires a manual start procedure. Start the engine manually and go.
Any other 767 captains care to comment on this MEL and the merits of inconveniencing 200 passengers because of it? In my opinion the Captain took a dump not only on the passengers but his/her fellow employees who had to deal with the 200 passengers. And for what?
 
It's true the captain did refuse the MEL on the start valve, I know, because I was one of the mechanic's working the flight. SO we change it in RECORD time. It just happened to be one of those rare occassions where we had all the parts and equipment right there. 12 minutes! It will probably never happen again but it did. After we did the check out and the paperwork (the paperwork took longer than it did to change the valve) the Captain requested 1300, yes, 1300 lbs more fuel. Here's where the "Philly factor" kicks in. No one could get the fuelers on the phone and to the plane. Finally the foreman had to go and wake him up in his office to to his truck and to the plane. Now we're minites from the f/a's timing out. NOW COMES THE FUNNY PART! The fueler didn't know how to operate the pumps on the truck. See , the pumps on the truck wont work unless the parking brake is set and he didn't know how to set them. Everytime he tried ,he kept turning on the windshield wipers! Then the crew timed out and the rest is history. I had heard that the f/a's were willing to stay on if they went over a little bit on their time, but after 45 minutes of the fuelers floundering, they had no choice but to walk off. We, in maint. broke our stones to get this flt out, only to be trashed by the local news radio station for maintaining and trying to pawn off a "unsafe a/c". Nothing could be further from the truth. Our a/c may look like sh*t, but they are safe airworthy aircraft and I would put may 2 year old daughet on any of them.
 
First it's the Captains call and that's the end of that. Once again we have a blame the customer & employees attitude.

YOU start the engine manually or deal with a problem over the ocean.

As for jumping to conclusions US Airways has demonstrated on numerous occassions the inability to organize a one car funeral. So the pilot might have been a little conservative on this one. It's his arse in the drink not yours if he guessed wrong. US & PHL have some of the best mechs in the business so why take even a small risk.

The fault would seem to be the fuelers who are no doubt low bid, low ball contractors that can't even fuel an aircraft. THAT sir is in control of MANAGEMENT. Stop blaming everyone else and look in the mirror.

The short, sweet bottom line for me as a customer is this: Did the Aircraft arrive at its destination within one hour of its scheduled arrival time. If there was no weather or ATC issues and the flight was over one hour late IT"S YOUR FAULT!!! PERIOD!!!

The time for reasons is long past, Let's try for some freaking RESULTS

PS: To UpAllNight, thanks for your efforts. It must be incredibly frustrating to bust your buns to get a repair done, only to have the kind of nonsense you describe. Keep up the good work. One of these days US will figure out that skilled experienced professionals like yourself are assets not liabilities to a profitable and successful operation.



Thanks Bob! They can take my pay and my benefits, but they can't take my responsibility to the a/c and the flying public and my diginity away. Period.
 
After we did the check out and the paperwork (the paperwork took longer than it did to change the valve) the Captain requested 1300, yes, 1300 lbs more fuel.
You forgot to mention that the crew needed to be towed to the gate after the engine wouldn't start.
He refused to taxi with one engine.
You forgot to mention that after the valve was changed the crew did the engine start (because passengers were on board) but took an unusual length of time to go through their before start checklist. Then the 1300 lb uplift? c'mon 1300 lbs? thats 200 gallons!

Ok the fueler caused a part of the lengthy delay but in the end....the flight crew was hell bent on not flying to Munich that evening.

Piney you can say that it's the captain's call and you are right but the fact is the FAA, GE and Boeing says it is safe to fly an aircraft with this MEL. I guess they didn't check with this Captain before they wrote it.

I've been in the business long enough to smell a rat. (or overly conservative captain as you called it) I've also been in the business long enough to never, ever comprimise safety or suggest anyone should.
Yes the performance speaks for it's self and I wasn't generalizing about it. ....it sucks, ....however I was only being specific on this topic and this particular flight.

Of course I am getting this info secondhand as I was not there so perhaps upallnight can clarify.
 
After we did the check out and the paperwork (the paperwork took longer than it did to change the valve) the Captain requested 1300, yes, 1300 lbs more fuel.

There are a number of different reasons why the Captain may have wanted fuel. No doubt the APU was running during the delay, taking the flight closer to its minimum fuel for takeoff. Another possibility is that the delay necessitated a refiling by dispatch to a less desirable North Atlantic Track. Lot of things go on during such situations, and it's impossible to know what led up to the decision without talking to the crew.


Nothing could be further from the truth. Our a/c may look like sh*t, but they are safe airworthy aircraft and I would put may 2 year old daughet on any of them.

Two thumbs up for that. :up: We are well aware of the effort you guys are putting in to keep it safe in spite of the half-hearted support of our management structure. We do appreciate it!
 
You forgot to mention that the crew needed to be towed to the gate after the engine wouldn't start.
He refused to taxi with one engine.!

And the US Airways procedure for taxiing a wide body is what, all knowing one? Do we taxi single engine, or on two? Are you type rated, in addition to your other accomplishments.


You forgot to mention that after the valve was changed the crew did the engine start (because passengers were on board) but took an unusual length of time to go through their before start checklist. Then the 1300 lb uplift? c'mon 1300 lbs? thats 200 gallons!

And what is the usual time to perform the Before Start Checklist, oh great one? Did the crew encounter any issues that needed resolution during their flows, which take place prior to checklist execution?

And just what were the minimum gate fuel and minimum fuel for takeoff on that flight, your eminence? Do you think that after a delay (with the APU running) and an engine start, those two critical numbers may have come into play? Maybe you think that we should just blast off, short fuel, on an ETOPS flight and tell the FAA, "C'mon, guys, it's 200 freakin' gallons, give me a break!" That might be the AWA "ETOPS casual" mentality of Captain Zitface, but we'll pass, thank you.


Of course I am getting this info secondhand as I was not there so perhaps upallnight can clarify.

Second hand from who, your excellency? Certainly not from the Captain or dispatcher of the flight.
 
GE would have nothing to do with it, the A330s are powered by Pratt and Whitney Engines.
 
Any other 767 captains care to comment on this MEL and the merits of inconveniencing 200 passengers because of it? In my opinion the Captain took a dump not only on the passengers but his/her fellow employees who had to deal with the 200 passengers. And for what?

The captain is the captain for a reason. One of the main reasons is.. ironically.. that he is the one there when the decision to fly has to be made.

It is naive to suggest that the information in an MEL is the only thing that has relevance to a captain's decision to push the throttles up to take off power.
 
Opps, thought is was a A330.

Can't blame the flight crew for wanting the engine fixed properly instead of an MEL, awefully lonely over the Atlantic.
 
You forgot to mention that the crew needed to be towed to the gate after the engine wouldn't start.
He refused to taxi with one engine.
You forgot to mention that after the valve was changed the crew did the engine start (because passengers were on board) but took an unusual length of time to go through their before start checklist. Then the 1300 lb uplift? c'mon 1300 lbs? thats 200 gallons!

Ok the fueler caused a part of the lengthy delay but in the end....the flight crew was hell bent on not flying to Munich that evening.

Piney you can say that it's the captain's call and you are right but the fact is the FAA, GE and Boeing says it is safe to fly an aircraft with this MEL. I guess they didn't check with this Captain before they wrote it.

I've been in the business long enough to smell a rat. (or overly conservative captain as you called it) I've also been in the business long enough to never, ever comprimise safety or suggest anyone should.
Yes the performance speaks for it's self and I wasn't generalizing about it. ....it sucks, ....however I was only being specific on this topic and this particular flight.

Of course I am getting this info secondhand as I was not there so perhaps upallnight can clarify.


You are 100% correct.
 

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