Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/19-4/26

[bigbusdrvr]

I keep seeing this so just out of curiosity, how many pilot seniority integrations have used only the A/M LPP's and when were they decided?

Jim

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Since everyone wants to keep answering my question with a question of their own, I dont know how many pilot intergrations used A/M only....Posibly only Allegheny/Mohawk........

Since the Arbitrator Nic was arbitrating at the behest of to unions alpa/east, alpa/west....who no longer represent any pilots at USAirways, Im not to sure this list cant be redone prior to implementation...

Just an outsiders musings,.....

 

[ableoneable]

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Since the Arbitrator Nic was arbitrating at the behest of to unions alpa/east, alpa/west....who no longer represent any pilots at USAirways, Im not to sure this list cant be redone prior to implementation...

Just an outsiders musings,.....

Muse me this then....

Since the west CBA and the East's LOA93 were agreements between the company and ALPA how come they are still in force?

 

[Tiger 1050]

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As I asked, What has been a "Decidedly Big Factor" (note I did not say it was the law) in previous seniority intergrations , using AM LPP's?

Hint: Its a question.....

Sounds more like a statement posed as a question... Or is it rhetorical in nature? 😉 I have to say I am curious to hear if you have facts to back up you assertions.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Muse me this then....

Since the west CBA and the East's LOA93 were agreements between the company and ALPA how come they are still in force?

Uh Oh! I have a feeling he will not be able to clearly articulate an answer on that one... :mf_boff:

 

[sharktooth]

Also I believe the Lists to be used by an Arbitrator should one be needed will be produced by the respective unions representing each pilot group. Am I wrong? Assuming I'm right (just for the moment) Why would USAPA use the Nic award if another was Negotiated?

Aw, you are taking away their bright and shiny toys.....

 

[nycbusdriver]

The federal legislation requires mediation followed by binding arbitration if that doesn't work. There are BIG differences in what this law requires and ALPA's whimsical policy. The law uses Allegheny-Mohawk protections as the basis for integration. Arbitrators in federal matters relay heavily on past precedent to arrive at their decisions. Most federal arbitrations in cases like this have gone along the lines of DOH, and THAT is the precedent. No federal arbitrator is going to go very far off that path because that's just the way they do things. There was an example years ago (I don't remember the carriers) where one carrier hadclosed its doors and then got acquired by another. The arbitrator gave those pilots from the shut-down airline DOH. I would say that "career expectations" would not be a factor under the new law, so the arbitrator would very likely not pull a "Nicolau" in any case.

 

[LSS]

Muse me this then....

Since the west CBA and the East's LOA93 were agreements between the company and ALPA how come they are still in force?

Because contracts are inherited by the new union. The NIC award implementation would have been based upon the transition agreement and upon each pilot group independently ratifying a new contract. Only after both groups have independently ratified a new contract can the NIC award come into play. Otherwise, it sits on a shelf.

 

[ableoneable]

The federal legislation requires mediation followed by binding arbitration if that doesn't work. There are BIG differences in what this law requires and ALPA's whimsical policy.

The Nicolau list has already followed the methodology spelled out by the new law. Mediation followed by binding arbitration. If you think it is going to be re-arbitrated you are entertaining a fantasy.

 

[sharktooth]

Muse me this then....

Since the west CBA and the East's LOA93 were agreements between the company and ALPA how come they are still in force?

Ratified agreements are in force. Both have been ratified.

Non-ratified "agreements" required to be ratified (i.e., merger agreement - the vehicle by which the "nic" actually has any validity and was never ratified, much less negotiated) are not.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Well, USAPA is now tasked with administering both contracts. And both contracts specify DOH as the basis of seniority. So...what's the problem again?

 

[ableoneable]

Well, USAPA is now tasked with administering both contracts. And both contracts specify DOH as the basis of seniority. So...what's the problem again?

Yes they do, for their own pilots. But DOH has nothing to do with combining those two lists. Now that USAPA is the bargaining agent they actually have less flexibility then ALPA would have had in dealing with the combined list. ALPA had a little room to jerk the list around as it was generated under their policies.

Now that USAPA has inherited all of the previous associations agreements they are frozen in their present form.

Like it or not you will one day fly under the Nicolau list.

If there is another merger it will just accelerate the process.

 

[sharktooth]

Yes they do, for their own pilots. But DOH has nothing to do with combining those two lists. Now that USAPA is the bargaining agent they actually have less flexibility then ALPA would have had in dealing with the combined list. ALPA had a little room to jerk the list around as it was generated under their policies.

Now that USAPA has inherited all of the previous associations agreements they are frozen in their present form.

Like it or not you will one day fly under the Nicolau list.

If there is another merger it will just accelerate the process.

Can I have some of what you are smoking?

 

[cactusboy53]

Well, USAPA is now tasked with administering both contracts. And both contracts specify DOH as the basis of seniority. So...what's the problem again?

Son, crack kills. Your reality is pure FANTASY. Besides, 7800 UAL pilots won't like your little "Hey, what do you guys think of DOH??" play.

Urban story a few years back: AAA pilot enters flight deck of a UAL aircraft and asks what a DOH of 1983 could hold. The UAL captain politely replied "My (single male anotomical appendage), if you're lucky!!"

ALPA's back in less than a year! Maybe you can blame them for something else.

 

[BoeingBoy]

And both contracts specify DOH as the basis of seniority. So...what's the problem again?

Merely the pesky little fact that both contracts specify ALPA merger policy when merging lists if both carriers are ALPA - check Section 1. If USAPA inherits both contracts, doesn't that mean "tasked with administering" that language.....

Jim

 

[Crzipilot]

asked on the qtr earnings report...

. WHAT ROUTE INTENTIONS ARE WE LOOKING AT FOR THE A330 BEING DELIVERED TO THE WEST.
A. There are no A330s being delivered to the West.