Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/19-4/26

[Piedmont1984]

Thanks. That's better. My second guess after "ALPA sucks" was that you were thinking of how to word "It's not our fault; we take no responsibility for anything that happened" in yet another way.

So now you are saying the line pilots did NOT want a strict DOH approach? That is quite a flip-flop. I don't recall many posts here from any East line pilots during the process stating that, or criticizing the ALPA negotiators for the position they were taking. Did I miss them?

What you say is interesting, because if the East line pilots did not want their negotiators going for a strict DOH approach during the seniority merger negotiations and arbitration, what explains their anger leading to the birth of USAPA when East did not get DOH?

You are damn right that I for one wanted DOH - with strong and durable fences, conditions and restrictions to protect both sides, east and west.

What I would have settled for was a decision from Nicolau that would have plotted out somewhere between the two opposing positions.

But then we had an election and a new CBA. DOH is part and parcel of USAPA's C&BL's. So now it becomes incumbent upon USAPA to craft a seniority list that succeeds where Nicolau failed.

The Nic list would have functioned exactly the way it looked. OTOH, a DOH list with fences, conditions and restrictions would appear one way - names on a list - but might function quite differently, addressing fairly the considerable differences and concerns between the two pilot groups.

 

[Bear96]

What I would have settled for was a decision from Nicolau that would have plotted out somewhere between the two opposing positions.

You do realize there likely would have been no need for a Nic decision at all had East been willing to discuss something other than straight DOH, like, I dunno, DOH with fences maybe?

 

[Piedmont1984]

You do realize there likely would have been no need for a Nic decision at all had East been willing to discuss something other than straight DOH, like, I dunno, DOH with fences maybe?

I recall differently. Your side would not entertain any methodology that included the letters D, O or H.

 

[Bear96]

I recall differently. Your side would not entertain any methodology that included the letters D, O or H.

I support both sides following the rules that were agreed to and that governed the relationship between them. Here, the rules (i.e., the merger policy) did not say "DOH period," like, for example, the AFA merger policy does. It is certainly possible to have a merger scenario between two airlines where DOH would be consistent with the merger policy. The US/HP merger was not one of those scenarios.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I support both sides following the rules that were agreed to and that governed the relationship between them. Here, the rules (i.e., the merger policy) did not say "DOH period," like, for example, the AFA merger policy does. It is certainly possible to have a merger scenario between two airlines where DOH would be consistent with the merger policy. The US/HP merger was not one of those scenarios.

To the irreversable detriment of the author of that failed merger policy - ALPA.

Anyway, we are beating a dead horse. All concerned need to move on, hopefully with some sort of cooperation, even if grudging. I will do my part.

 

[EastUS]

To the irreversable detriment of the author of that failed merger policy - ALPA.

Anyway, we are beating a dead horse. All concerned need to move on, hopefully with some sort of cooperation, even if grudging. I will do my part.

Agreed. It would likely be of great benefit to the west, and to the pilot group as a whole, if they choose to participate. If not?..The enitire last year's been filled with worthless, and childish rhetoric, "I want the Captain seat,..and, most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it"..."Booshaka", "Ho Ho Ho!.St Nic is coming to town!" which has ultimately, served no purpose whatsoever....and no amount of additional, mindless and hysterical BS will prove of the slightest value going forward. All the ranting and threatening in the world will change none of the current circumstances. Our best group opportunities for negotiations certainly would be enhanced by maximum participation. If that's not thought desirable on the west...then, so be it. As the rather emotional lady 757FO noted yesterday; that leaves all negotiations with the east...an undesireable situation, but we can only work with whom we have to work with.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FWIW: Department.

Just saw the local business news tonight. Seems all the board posts concerning US/UAL was possibly wasted. Interesting reading, but wasted none the less. Apparently we are now talking merger with AA. Best guess that AA will go into a prepackaged BK. That's Doug's MO. Going to be interesting times ahead, no matter what happens.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

April 25, 2008

Fellow pilots;

The result of the NMB election on Thursday was a dramatic call for change on our property. The USAPA Leadership and I sincerely appreciate the remarkable step you took and we pledge to work diligently on your behalf. Your new union is transforming from the election mode to a full service mode. As we work through the various issues we face and the ramping up of our committee structure, we ask for your patience. We realize that some pilots may have pressing needs so I will add the following contact information below:

USAPA 24 hour Accident or Critical Incident number is 1-800-341-7176
USAPA phone message: 1-877-678-7272 x1
USAPA Contract Hot Line: 1-877-678-7272 ext 723. West pilots – we are currently seeking a West Contract Support Liaison, until one is appointed please use this number also, understanding that the Support Specialist may have to return your call after researching the question.
R&I Committee, for Insurance and LTD issues: 1-877-7272 ext 730
USAPA CLT Office (M-F, 8-5 ET): Local: 704-269-5608 or 1-877-678-7272 ext 745

Last week the BPR (Board of Pilot Representatives) met immediately after the results of the NMB Election were announced. As you can imagine, it is a busy time with much work to do. I am pleased to report that the BPR functioned extremely well as they prioritized the work load and addressed the critical issues. If you were in the room and had seen the striking spirit of cooperation that the BPR exhibited as they worked through your most critical and early decisions, I know you would have been as convinced as I that a new day is upon us. We will seize it.

The following bullet points reflect some of the work of the BPR:

We are concentrating on insurance issues and conversion. I have signed the contract for Aeromedical services. Regarding those Aeromedical services, USAPA will pay the first 60 days for all pilots, after which it will pay for members only. The 60 day deadline does not stop non-members from getting the service; they can apply and pay a monthly fee.

We have been working on getting the office up and running with a fully functional web portal and site so that most matters can be handled online. The current site has been split into a public page and a Members Only section. Initial security is in place just to keep phone numbers and email addresses private. Once the new site is up (we anticipate 4-6 weeks) security will be enhanced, with usernames and passwords sent by US Mail to USAPA members.

There are several very important grievance issues that must be addressed including Disabled Pilots non-qualified plan contributions, denied medical benefits and a pending termination and discipline case. USAPA will not allow a pilot to “fall through the cracks†concerning a grievance or discipline case.

One of management’s first actions after our certification as the bargaining agent was to submit the past ASAP MOU to USAPA for our consideration. There are significant problems with the aspect of dual source reporting included in the original MOU that can leave our pilots, more times than not, vulnerable to discipline. This problem significantly dilutes the well advertised and functional immunity provisions of the ASAP MOU virtually useless. Other major airlines have dealt with this issue or are in the process of doing so. We replied with more acceptable language on this issue in the form of a modifying MOU that is currently in use at Spirit, and Alaska. Delta has dropped ASAP over these issues, as has FedEx. American Airlines is on its second 90 day extension. American granted the improved language that we seek to their TWU members and their mechanics, but at this time, not to their pilots. In the meantime I have signed a MOU with US Airways and the FAA that reinstates our ASAP program. The MOU is limited to a 120 day period to allow USAPA to work with the FAA and US Airways to incorporate needed changes to the program. We await US Airways management’s response to our requirements on this issue. Pilots should continue to submit ASAP reports, and in addition, always file a NASA Report as those protections remain undiluted.

We are continuing to staff important committee positions.

I would now like to address the issues that I believe brought us to where we are today. Although many of our West pilots might not believe this, the April 17th NMB election results did not start with George Nicolau; it started many years prior. It started with internal problems in our MEC and the misuse and punitive use of power. Divisive leadership became embedded into our old union and the pilots found themselves debating personalities and not issues just at a time when we could ill afford dysfunctional leadership. The line pilots understood this, and among other matters, it manifested itself in the NMB Election results.

This pilot group had to make tough choices, but the fact is that due to division and mistrust, bad decisions were forced upon us and we continue to work in this dark period. The election of USAPA is not so much about the philosophy of “hard line†or “co-operative,†or the Nicolau Award, or the pension termination, but rather promoting a spirit of cooperation among our leaders. It is about our pilots directing our leadership, all solely with the best interests of our pilots in mind.

The USAPA Officers have committed to debate issues and not personalities or supposed motives. We will use all of our resources to focus the discourse concerning the future of our pilot group on the issues only. We must never allow debate to enter the personal arena in our deliberations. If we fail in this regard then we are nothing more then a caricature of the old Pogo cartoon; “we have met the enemy and he is us.â€

Moving on, let me say that USAPA leadership welcomes all US Airways pilots to become members as our union needs your support and involvement. I would caution you all, that in electing a new bargaining agent with a simplified structure and constitution, you remove the safety net of ambivalence. The previous bargaining agent grew up over its 75 year history in a primarily regulated market and it was the perfect vehicle for non-participation. If you paid dues, and stayed out of trouble, there was no need to worry about getting involved or even for voting. You could coast through a whole career and at the end, never have attended a meeting, voted for an official or been involved in any way in union work.

The US Airways Pilots have taken the step to independence. With independence comes responsibility; the responsibility to participate. As you observed from the NMB election, reading the headlines simply isn’t good enough.

The fact is you now have the ability to elect the entire leadership, including all the Officers; President, Vice Presidents and the Secretary Treasurer. This constitutional change allows the pilots to have more say in the political direction of the union. Although there is strength in having the leadership set the agenda as mandated from the pilot group, it requires that the pilots fully understand the issues.

USAPA invites all pilots to join and participate in setting the direction of this pilot group. Membership is voluntary but to not join removes your right to vote, hold office, attend meetings or participate in any way. To join this union, even if you voted for USAPA, you must sign a membership form and submit it; labor law is strict in this regard. You have voted in a new barraging agent, but you have not become a member of that association until you ask to join via the membership form.

USAPA encourages you to sign and return the dues check-off form. Dues check-off is not a requirement but it will be more convenient for you and for our bookkeeper, and it will save your union money. There are stories of those who have allowed a dues lapse to go on for along time and attempt to “coast†dues-free on the backs of US Airways pilots; we will not carry those who want the benefits of membership, but will not pay their fair share. Hardship and extraordinary cases can be submitted to the Secretary Treasurer for consideration by the Board of Pilot Representatives.

One of the recommendations I made at our first meeting was to wear our uniform correctly and remove campaign material from our person, and luggage. The yellow lanyards that were an effective political tool during the NMB election have made their point, but now they could be seen as the continuation of division in our ranks. I have put my yellow lanyard aside, I display my union pin and I have removed any stickers or tags that say “seniority matters†or other statements related to our campaign. I would ask that you do the same with your uniform and to remove any material you see on an aircraft or jetway. The election is over and wearing material that continues to display our political view is no longer productive to our cause.

In closing I want to thank this pilot group for taking the steps necessary to change our direction. I ask that all pilots help in the success of this new union. We are first and foremost US Airways pilots, and although I have a new union pin, I work with the same great people, and we have the same mission.

Sincerely,

Stephen H. Bradford
President
US Airline Pilots Association

 

[Leonidas]

Monitoring the actions of USAPA is fine. Engaging and participating would be even better. Committee positions need to be filled, negotiations with management are imminent. Such participation costs your group nothing.

It costs our group a whole lot, it legitimizes your agenda, we won't play that game. How about you accept the Nic. as is? if you don't you will never see anything but loa 93, enjoy it scab.

 

[EastUS]

It costs our group a whole lot, it legitimizes your agenda, we won't play that game. How about you accept the Nic. as is? if you don't you will never see anything but loa 93, enjoy it scab.

The Union, covering all pilots on the property, has been legitimized per the NMB. You may choose to pretend otherwise only if it perversely suits your own purposes and fantasies. "we won't play that game." By doing so, you forfeit the proper hearing of your voice in negotiations, which seems irrational to me, but that's your choice to make. If you find greater joy in playing whatever other games you're intent on..again..so be it, although that seems a fool's errand. Nic's against the very charter of USAPA, and thusly, can't be accepted. Loa93's a negotiable issue for the future. As for "enjoy it scab"..we've no actual scabs out east, so you might get more mileage from "Yo' Momma wears ARMY of Leonidas Boots!" or something of the sort. 🙄 The actual agenda out here's to put this mess Alpo threw us into some workable order, and obtain better things for our collective group. Your agenda, as you've previously stated = "I want the captain seat..and, most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it". I'll leave it to any/all readers to discern which of us holds the most reasonable perspective.

 

[prechilill]

The actual agenda out here's to put this mess Alpo threw us into some workable order, and obtain better things for our collective group.

When you say "alpo" I assume you are talking about your own USAir pilots, because if you know anything about national associations you would understand that everything which happened to you in your necrotic career was signed at the bottom by a USAir pilot.

 

[EastUS]

When you say "alpo" I assume you are talking about your own USAir pilots, because if you know anything about national associations you would understand that everything which happened to you in your necrotic career was signed at the bottom by a USAir pilot.

By that logic; You would seem likely to be the first in line to participate, and ensure that any/all actions and negotiations regarding the west pilots will NOT be purely dependant upon a "USAir pilot" signing off on anything. Just a thought.

For the sake of argument: Just what if?..your predictions for instant, and astounding legal obliteration of all things USAPA prove as wrong as have, well..pretty much ALL of the west's prior assumptions to date?...most recently your own ="USAPA will be lucky to get half the east votes"/etc. You've pilots out there in apparent despair and extreme frustration aka: "and now, we don't even have a union". You do have one. It's your choices as to what part you all, or as individuals, will play in it.

PS: If the west paradigm was correct = USAPA was only formed to inflict distress on the west....then...why would I, or any evil-easties be actively seeking your participation? What you do, or don't do does nothing regarding "legitimizing" a legally established Union. The best course open for the east, were we intent upon just hammering the west, would be to alienate your group as much as possible from ANY participation.

 

[Piedmont1984]

It costs our group a whole lot, it legitimizes your agenda, we won't play that game. How about you accept the Nic. as is? if you don't you will never see anything but loa 93, enjoy it scab.

Your insult makes you nothing more than a coward hiding behind a hero's name, or a keyboard, or both in your case.

 

[prechilill]

PS: If the west paradigm was correct = USAPA was only formed to inflict distress on the west....then...why would I, or any evil-easties be actively seeking your participation? What you do, or don't do does nothing regarding "legitimizing" a legally established Union. The best course open for the east, were we intent upon just hammering the west, would be to alienate your group as much as possible from ANY participation.

I think you should ask that question to first officer Bradford, he is the one who recognized the offensive nature of his own creation and asked his sheeple to put the yellow lanyards in the drawer. This is probably a first for all unions to have such a request, but of course most unions are established on sound union principles such as unity. USAPA is a standup comedy act, replete with the scraggly politician at the helm full of untenable promises his organization was fueled on.

 

[nostradamus]

It costs our group a whole lot, it legitimizes your agenda, we won't play that game. How about you accept the Nic. as is? if you don't you will never see anything but loa 93, enjoy it scab.

"I suppose they were experimenting with the tactic of making themselves look pitiful. They dragged their children around with them and planted them in front of you if you tried to move.

Well, what can one say? It was an interesting technique, but you could tell that the kids would really rather have been someplace else at the time."

OH that was quite a hoot, watching those children look pitiful while you were scabbing their jobs away. You america west pilots know how to have a good time. Why didn't your pilot group mention your "international flying" in Australia.


Real scab story