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Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/19-4/26

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I think you should ask that question to first officer Bradford, he is the one who recognized the offensive nature of his own creation and asked his sheeple to put the yellow lanyards in the drawer. This is probably a first for all unions to have such a request, but of course most unions are established on sound union principles such as unity. USAPA is a standup comedy act, replete with the scraggly politician at the helm full of untenable promises his organization was fueled on.

Heavy sigh...OK then; Try whatever you want by way of your Holy St. Nic's Crusade. Have fun, and by your inactions, I guess it'll all be entirely up to the east group you so clearly despise to plot your future for you...Brilliant. 🙄
 
It costs our group a whole lot, it legitimizes your agenda, we won't play that game. How about you accept the Nic. as is? if you don't you will never see anything but loa 93, enjoy it scab.

Check out what america west pilots accepted for 25 years. Bottom wages. US Airways pilots had done this for a year before the MERGER, then the america west pilots put on a halo. Notice the Southwest pilots wages, they accepted less and have recently raped, er exuse the spelling, reaped the rewards of undercutting. Please note the Aloha Airline pilots wages vs the Hawaiian pilots . The Aloha pilots were rewarded by alpa with resume class, the Hawaiian pilots kept their jobs, alpa reward for undercutting.

I have pointed out alpa's main problem. john prater, president of alpa, worked with a bunch of scabs at continental, he was rewarded with wages and promotion. Scabs win with alpa, the problem is they sleep well at night.



Pillots undercutting wages for years, then showing displeasure when others do the same, click here.
 
It costs our group a whole lot, it legitimizes your agenda, we won't play that game. How about you accept the Nic. as is? if you don't you will never see anything but loa 93, enjoy it scab.
USAPA will be in LAS and PHX in the next week or so to close the ALPO offices and the new seniority list will be turned over to the company in a month or two. Section 6 talks will start in about 5 to 6 months,Legal action will be taken for non payment of dues. Just some info!! I guess if we merge with AA will you all feel your entitled to all their widebody flying also! whose the scab now?
 
Check out what america west pilots accepted for 25 years. Bottom wages. US Airways pilots had done this for a year before the MERGER, then the america west pilots put on a halo. Notice the Southwest pilots wages, they accepted less and have recently raped, er exuse the spelling, reaped the rewards of undercutting. Please note the Aloha Airline pilots wages vs the Hawaiian pilots . The Aloha pilots were rewarded by alpa with resume class, the Hawaiian pilots kept their jobs, alpa reward for undercutting.

I have pointed out alpa's main problem. john prater, president of alpa, worked with a bunch of scabs at continental, he was rewarded with wages and promotion. Scabs win with alpa, the problem is they sleep well at night.



Pillots undercutting wages for years, then showing displeasure when others do the same, click here.

Same argument, over and over and over.

AWA's first contract was just that, the first contract negotiated after ALPA organization. It was also negotiated during bankruptcy.

So let's compare an apple to an apple. Why don't you extoll on the advances the AAA pilot group made during your negotiations while in chapter 11?



With respect to EastUS, a heavy sigh right back at ya.

Your side keeps insinuating that the furloughed east pilots made a sacrifice to keep AAA in business. They no more made sacrifices then they "earned" seniority. Seniority is accrued not earned and a sacrifice is by definition a voluntary offering. When a pilot is involuntarily furloughed he has not made a sacrifice.

It boils down the the east wanting the west pilots to pay the price for all of the east's "sacrifices." The pay, retirement and work rule give backs may, or may not, have been necessary, but these were laid on the alter by the east pilots and the west pilots are not going to pay punitive damages to make the east pilots whole.

Though you are one of the few to say you don't want any west pilot displaced there are others who feel quite differently. Autofixer and Oldie, to name two off the top of my head, feel that it would be okay for an east furloughee and a west captain to exchange places because "you were in junior high when he was at USAir." Well we are not interested in this concept of "fairness."

DOH is a staple because conditions and restrictions are always temporary and over time one's position will gradually be determined by their system seniority.

USAPA has codified DOH as part of their bylaws. I don't think you will ever see us holding hands with you while you go to management to gain for yourselves at our expense.

By the way I have yet to refer to the east as scabs. However, the definition of a scab is one who is willing to step in and take another's job. By that definition USAPA is a scab organization. Their reason de et-re is to impose a DOH list, to provide "furlough protection" to the east pilots. If you break the code "furlough protection" decodes as; Furlough the west pukes but keep the east pilots employed because the east pilots have already "sacrificed" enough for the good of USAirways.

We would have to be insane to participate in our own mugging.
 
By the way I have yet to refer to the east as scabs. However, the definition of a scab is one who is willing to step in and take another's job.

Look in the mirror. You worked for less and refuse to join the present union.

This is moot, because in a few days your hero doug will be selling the parts of US Airways to the highest bidder to line his pockets and stock his bar. You will see how your alpa "brothers" will defend you very shortly, it will consist of a kit darby resume class, assuming you are current in your alpa dues.
 
Wow, I've been reading this exchange and I have to say that the position the West is taking is frought with danger.

Do you guys really think that "ignoring" your new union serves a fruitful purpose for those pilots in the West system? If you feel that a DFR lawsuit against ALPA is in order, (hey, we've all felt that at one time or another) go for it.

As to a DFR against USAPA, I fail to see any correlation or basis at this point. You are BEING solicited to engage and involve yourselves...aka: asking you to "engage" in YOUR own representative agency...and YOU are refusing..with great zeal and bravado....
"..we won't play that game..."

Well, there goes your DFR suit, right out the window.

Amazing.
 
Look in the mirror. You worked for less and refuse to join the present union.

This is moot, because in a few days your hero doug will be selling the parts of US Airways to the highest bidder to line his pockets and stock his bar. You will see how your alpa "brothers" will defend you very shortly, it will consist of a kit darby resume class, assuming you are current in your alpa dues.

Again you tend to ignore questions.

When AWA negotiated their two CBAs, one during chapter 11 and the next in the wake of 9/11 we are scabs because those rates do not compare favorably with your top of the economy rates.

However, your low payrates, (lower than AWA) and really $hitty work rules are not because you are scabs but because the dark forces of ALPA conspired to rob your children of their lollipops.


About mergers, who knows. The last thing I heard was that UAL was going to be ripped in half and its remains welded to USAir and Continental.

However it turns out rest assured that it will be the Nicolau list that is lined up next to the other carriers list for integration.
 
Wow, I've been reading this exchange and I have to say that the position the West is taking is frought with danger.

Do you guys really think that "ignoring" your new union serves a fruitful purpose for those pilots in the West system? If you feel that a DFR lawsuit against ALPA is in order, (hey, we've all felt that at one time or another) go for it.

As to a DFR against USAPA, I fail to see any correlation or basis at this point. You are BEING solicited to engage and involve yourselves...aka: asking you to "engage" in YOUR own representative agency...and YOU are refusing..with great zeal and bravado....
"..we won't play that game..."

Well, there goes your DFR suit, right out the window.

Amazing.

Clearly you don't understand the situation well.

Refusing to be a participant in your own rape does not preclude a DFR suit.

USAPA is legally obligated to represent all the pilots under the CBA or CBAs.

The fact that their primary objective is to take from one part of that group to give to another is what makes USAPA vulnerable to a DFR suit.
 
With respect to EastUS, a heavy sigh right back at ya.

Understood. While it's no surprise that we don't fully agree on any/all levels, one thing we both/all can clearly see = We've a huge gulf between the west-east positions. It may well be residual, and perhaps even irrational idealism on my part, but that's exactly why I'd like to see vigorous west participation, if even in only small hopes of finding some workable common ground at this point. I wish I had some magic-wand fix for the scenario, but none of us do.
 
Clearly you don't understand the situation well.

Refusing to be a participant in your own rape does not preclude a DFR suit.

USAPA is legally obligated to represent all the pilots under the CBA or CBAs.

The fact that their primary objective is to take from one part of that group to give to another is what makes USAPA vulnerable to a DFR suit.
Well, sir, that is where you and I fail to agree. If all attrition and seats are protected on the West...and likewise on the East, (for example) how and in what way is something being taken from West and given East.

Yes, maybe if thats your premise, then I fail to grasp the length and breadth of your DFR suit.
 
When AWA negotiated their two CBAs, one during chapter 11 and the next in the wake of 9/11 we are scabs because those rates do not compare favorably with your top of the economy rates.

However, your low payrates, (lower than AWA) and really $hitty work rules are not because you are scabs but because the dark forces of ALPA conspired to rob you children of their lollipops.


Our children have lollipops now, alpa is gone. Your pilots worked for sub standard wages for 25 years, US Airways pilots to re group, worked for a year. US Airways pilots 1,000,000, america west pilots 20,000. You are the example of the new alpa math.
 
Our children have lollipops now, alpa is gone. Your pilots worked for sub standard wages for 25 years, US Airways pilots to re group, worked for a year. US Airways pilots 1,000,000, america west pilots 20,000. You are the example of the new alpa math.


Only a year?

When did you get those snap backs?
 
Clearly you don't understand the situation well.

Refusing to be a participant in your own rape does not preclude a DFR suit.

USAPA is legally obligated to represent all the pilots under the CBA or CBAs.

The fact that their primary objective is to take from one part of that group to give to another is what makes USAPA vulnerable to a DFR suit.
I'd further like to explore the combined argument scenario:

1) You claim DFR because East is stealing from West (perhaps you can clarify) whilst not considering what protections may be in place to secure each sides "pre-merger" status. (seats,etc)

2) West guys are flipping a finger at even getting involved in USAPA at ANY level.

1) =Cry foul

2)= Refuse to participate in any process which may resolve differences.

Is that a fair summation of status?


(pause for response....)

thought so.
 
Clearly you don't understand the situation well.

Refusing to be a participant in your own rape does not preclude a DFR suit.

USAPA is legally obligated to represent all the pilots under the CBA or CBAs.

The fact that their primary objective is to take from one part of that group to give to another is what makes USAPA vulnerable to a DFR suit.

However it turns out rest assured that it will be the Nicolau list that is lined up next to the other carriers list for integration.

You offer a great many entirely unfounded, blanket statements which will need actual testing/trial to see the truth or falsehood of. I'd caution that a position of concerted denial of participation in a legally elected and sanctioned Union may not, in the end, serve your purposes so very well in court. Frankly; if I were interested in seeing you folks trashed, and our respective sides as distanced as possible, leaving ALL the power in the east, I'd be enthusiastically doing everything possible to convince you that your current thinking's perfectly correct. Just my two cents worth....Do what you think best.
 
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