Question For Us F/as - Trades/dpu

[airlinedivalish]

I have a question for US F/As.

I do alot of personal trades and drop my trips quite a bit.
Can US F/A drop their international trips and fly domestic and vise versa? I was told by someone that you cannot.

Also can you pick up trips from other hubs? Let's say, somebody wants to drop their trip in PHL and you are CLT based.


I would like to know how flexible your schedules are. Can you drop part of your 4 day trip? Let's say you just want to do Day of Turns and you held a 4 day trip. Can you do partial trip drops and turn them into 1 day or 2 day trips through personal trade boards?

Just wondering.

 

[what_a_trip]

I have a question for US F/As.

I do alot of personal trades and drop my trips quite a bit.
Can US F/A drop their international trips and fly domestic and vise versa? I was told by someone that you cannot.

Also can you pick up trips from other hubs? Let's say, somebody wants to drop their trip in PHL and you are CLT based.
I would like to know how flexible your schedules are. Can you drop part of your 4 day trip? Let's say you just want to do Day of Turns and you held a 4 day trip. Can you do partial trip drops and turn them into 1 day or 2 day trips through personal trade boards?

Just wondering.

[post="284137"][/post]​

airlinedivalish-

I have been on furlough since our latest contract revision, so an active f/a may need to correct me. In fact, this is my first time on the board.

Since our International Division is no longer fenced, a f/a can drop and pick up international to domestic trips or vise versa.

Bases are fenced - a f/a cannot drop/pick-up trips from other bases; doing so could be detrimental to a junior flight attendant's flying time.

You cannot "split" (turn a 4 day into a 2 day, for example) a trip unless vacation or training touches your trip.

If you want to drop your 4 day trip for lesser time, you would have to pick up a trip that touches the first day of the trip and eventually you would have to make-up any lost time by month's end.

We have a new "electronic trade board" where you would not have to make-up any dropped time over 50 hours, as long as someone picks up your dropped trips (Obviously, you would only be payed for 50 hours). Also new to our contract, if you have a weekend trip, you must fly it or pick up a trip that flies on both days of the weekend.

Keep in mind, our new "combined" contract may be entirely different. Also, keep in mind that, as our unions have hinted, AW and U f/a bases will be fenced entirely (transfers included) for quite a bit of time (year(s)) after the merger. Not just for operational purposes, this fenced time will be needed to calm emotions.

Hope this helps,
Trip

 

[PHLfa88]

What A Trip,
WELL SAID!! You Are Correct! One thing though. When you recieve your block award (pre SAP) you are obligated to that block time ie: lets say your block was 93 hrs, you have to drop a trip due to OP (over projection), so you drop a 3day worth 15hrs, you still owe the company 90hrs, you block of time is now 78hrs but you still owe the company 12 more hrs, 78+12=90. Now if you put one of your trips on the ETB (worth 15hrs) and someone picks it up, your block drops to 63hrs, you now owe the company 78hrs because you were 12hrs in the hole to start with. ect.ect. The only way to make up the 12 (company)hrs is to go on the AIL, the ETB does not let you get your 12 company hrs back. Sorry to rant.

 

[airlinedivalish]

What A Trip,
WELL SAID!! You Are Correct! One thing though. When you recieve your block award (pre SAP) you are obligated to that block time ie: lets say your block was 93 hrs, you have to drop a trip due to OP (over projection), so you drop a 3day worth 15hrs, you still owe the company 90hrs, you block of time is now 78hrs but you still owe the company 12 more hrs, 78+12=90. Now if you put one of your trips on the ETB (worth 15hrs) and someone picks it up, your block drops to 63hrs, you now owe the company 78hrs because you were 12hrs in the hole to start with. ect.ect. The only way to make up the 12 (company)hrs is to go on the AIL, the ETB does not let you get your 12 company hrs back. Sorry to rant.

[post="284401"][/post]​

Over Projections? Hmm... What the heck is that? What is Pre SAP? I usually work between 100 to 120 hours.

Hmm.. At AWA, we have high time options and we can work international and domestic flights.

If we have a 4 day trip, we can change them into two 2 day trips or change them to 3 days or day of turns.

Our Union is also negotiating that we can be allowed to drop part of our trip through personal trades, so reserves can easily pick them up like Southwest. I think this would prevent sick calls if we are allowed to do this. I just hope we get a contract soon before they merge our contracts.

 

[what_a_trip]

Over Projections? Hmm... What the heck is that? What is Pre SAP? I usually work between 100 to 120 hours.

Hmm.. At AWA, we have high time options and we can work international and domestic flights.

If we have a 4 day trip, we can change them into two 2 day trips or change them to 3 days or day of turns.

Our Union is also negotiating that we can be allowed to drop part of our trip through personal trades, so reserves can easily pick them up like Southwest. I think this would prevent sick calls if we are allowed to do this. I just hope we get a contract soon before they merge our contracts.

[post="284410"][/post]​

It sounds like U has all the scheduling benefits that AW does. In fact, our management built our negotiated contract, in many ways, comparative to yours (Hmmm, I wonder why?).

I was focusing on the “how flexible are your schedulers†question from your original post. All our scheduling policies are contractually protected it has nothing to do with the flexibility of a crew scheduler.

To answer your questions:

Pre-SAP is before the SAP process which is described below.

“Over projection†is when you are awarded a block that goes over your flying option. And, yes, we have high-time options too!

Once again, at U we CAN fly international (transatlantic) and/or domestic trips in a given month as long as you are trained in the aircraft and in-flight service (which is mandatory if you are based in a city that has transatlantic service).

We too can change a 4-day trip into any other trip. These changes can be made in several ways:

SAP stands for Schedule Adjustment Period – a time frame (6 days) available to change the trips in your awarded bid line.

The AIL or availability/improvement list – where you bid on or drop a trip for the following day.

The ETB “electronic trade board†– a first come/first serve trip awarding or dropping process. I'm not knowledgeable with this. It was added during my "hiatus".

Also, I believe personal trades are allowed if the trips being traded are relatively equal in time. Reserves can trade days off.

Hope this clears it up.

 

[what_a_trip]

What A Trip,
WELL SAID!! You Are Correct! One thing though. When you recieve your block award (pre SAP) you are obligated to that block time ie: lets say your block was 93 hrs, you have to drop a trip due to OP (over projection), so you drop a 3day worth 15hrs, you still owe the company 90hrs, you block of time is now 78hrs but you still owe the company 12 more hrs, 78+12=90. Now if you put one of your trips on the ETB (worth 15hrs) and someone picks it up, your block drops to 63hrs, you now owe the company 78hrs because you were 12hrs in the hole to start with. ect.ect. The only way to make up the 12 (company)hrs is to go on the AIL, the ETB does not let you get your 12 company hrs back. Sorry to rant.

[post="284401"][/post]​

THANKS for the info, PHLfa88! This ETB is certainly going to be a trip when/if I return to the line!

Am I still correct when stating that a f/a can drop to 50 hours on the ETB without having to make up the lost time? Do you know if it hard to drop tirps on the ETB - one days, for instance? I was on the 55hr option before the ETB and I hope to keep these hours should I return (possibly this December). Thanks again.

 

[N903AW]

I have a question regarding the Flight Attendant Crew Scheduling Department at USAirways. How are they with knowledge of your current contract? Do they abide by all contract duty rigs or only when they benefit the company?

Is your scheduling department sufficiently staffed to promptly handle calls during both regular and irregular operations? The reason I ask is because our scheduling department is grossly understaffed and this many times causes strained relations between our schedulers and flight crews. They have gotten better with following our contract, but sometimes have to be reminded about certain sections and how they may be affecting a particular crew.

I am just hoping that with the merger that we can improve our relationship between crew scheduling and flight crews with more experienced personnel from the USAirways side.

 

[StewGuy86]

I have a question regarding the Flight Attendant Crew Scheduling Department at USAirways.   How are they with knowledge of your current contract?  Do they abide by all contract duty rigs or only when they benefit the company?

Is your scheduling department sufficiently staffed to promptly handle calls during both regular and irregular operations?  The reason I ask is because our scheduling department is grossly understaffed and this many times causes strained relations between our schedulers and flight crews.  They have gotten better with following our contract, but sometimes have to be reminded about certain sections and how they may be affecting a particular crew.

I am just hoping that with the merger that we can improve our relationship between crew scheduling and flight crews with more experienced personnel from the USAirways side.

[post="284444"][/post]​

N903AW--

I've been out on a voluntary furlough for the last 2.5 years and I hear it's a very different work environment (and, for that matter, a different airline) than when I left. So, I may not be the most knowledgeable person to respond to your question, and I'll certainly defer to any of the currently active F/As out there who can give you a better answer. But I'll give you my opinion based on my experiences before I left.

As you can imagine, it sometimes varies from scheduler to scheduler and what's going on (irregular ops, etc.)...some can be total a**holes, but most are pretty nice or at least cordial and professional. For the most part I'd say the relationship between the F/As and the schedulers is a good one....or at least it used to be. While there are certainly times that scheduling has violated the F/A contract, I think that for the most part they're very knowledgeable of the contract language....more so than the F/As in many cases! Furthermore, I never personally had any problems getting through to scheduling, even during irregular ops.

However, I should point out that as a blockholder, my interaction with scheduling was probably a lot different than it is for reserves. I was never on reserve at US, so I can't say what that was like in relation to the schedulers. But I WAS a reserve at Piedmont and I can tell you that many of those schedulers were downright nasty to deal with and seemed to take pleasure in making a F/A's life miserable. I never got that impression at US, so by comparison the US schedulers were great to work with. I do have to say there was one notable exception, however. She always worked in CLT Future and she was incredibly nasty to me (and others from what I heard) on numerous occasions. I even reported her to a supervisor at one point. But that was probably 8-10 years ago and she may not even be around now. Hopefully she got fired for being so nasty!

 

[what_a_trip]

I have a question regarding the Flight Attendant Crew Scheduling Department at USAirways. How are they with knowledge of your current contract? Do they abide by all contract duty rigs or only when they benefit the company?

Is your scheduling department sufficiently staffed to promptly handle calls during both regular and irregular operations? The reason I ask is because our scheduling department is grossly understaffed and this many times causes strained relations between our schedulers and flight crews. They have gotten better with following our contract, but sometimes have to be reminded about certain sections and how they may be affecting a particular crew.

I am just hoping that with the merger that we can improve our relationship between crew scheduling and flight crews with more experienced personnel from the USAirways side.

[post="284444"][/post]​

Hey N903AW … from one brand newbie to another, welcome aboard!

Like StewGuy86, I, too, am not an active f/a right now, but I can give you my point of view.

Like most departments with U (with the exception of upper management, so it appears), chances are the scheduling department is working with a minimal crew.

My experience is that schedulers are generally kind, but will often TRY to “translateâ€￾ the duty rigs in their favor when the system is strained (weather, lack of available reserves, etc.).

There are a lot of changes to the contract so mistakes are expected. Our union has sent out several emails lately recommending that we agree with what the scheduler says (within reason) and process the grievance later.

We do have a pretty reliable phone recording system that protects both the f/a and scheduler with disputes. I had to have a recording researched only once several years ago when scheduling was trying to pull a fast one over me and the conflict was resolved in my favor.

My opinion, generally speaking, is that the difference in a schedulers respect between a block holder and a reserve is like night and day.

I remember being a block holder on the last day of one month and a reserve the first day on the following month. With very little exaggeration, the very same sweet, kindly-toned scheduler who would laugh and joke with me while processing my trip the month before had turned into a serious, combative-toned individual who treated me like I was the enemy. That was many years ago – hopefully things have improved since then.

Finally, U is adopting more and more technology (only now because it is cheaper then financing employees). With that said, the good news is that most scheduling needs during normal operations, at least for block holders, can now be processed through automation, which cuts down on mistakes and bad attitudes (but also cuts jobs).

Hopefully the new U will adopt the best of both crew-scheduling departments and we’ll all be the better for it.

 

[N903AW]

Hey N903AW … from one brand newbie to another, welcome aboard!

Like StewGuy86, I, too, am not an active f/a right now, but I can give you my point of view.

Like most departments with U (with the exception of upper management, so it appears), chances are the scheduling department is working with a minimal crew.

My experience is that schedulers are generally kind, but will often TRY to “translateâ€￾ the duty rigs in their favor when the system is strained (weather, lack of available reserves, etc.).

There are a lot of changes to the contract so mistakes are expected. Our union has sent out several emails lately recommending that we agree with what the scheduler says (within reason) and process the grievance later.

We do have a pretty reliable phone recording system that protects both the f/a and scheduler with disputes. I had to have a recording researched only once several years ago when scheduling was trying to pull a fast one over me and the conflict was resolved in my favor.

My opinion, generally speaking, is that the difference in a schedulers respect between a block holder and a reserve is like night and day.

I remember being a block holder on the last day of one month and a reserve the first day on the following month. With very little exaggeration, the very same sweet, kindly-toned scheduler who would laugh and joke with me while processing my trip the month before had turned into a serious, combative-toned individual who treated me like I was the enemy. That was many years ago – hopefully things have improved since then.

Finally, U is adopting more and more technology (only now because it is cheaper then financing employees). With that said, the good news is that most scheduling needs during normal operations, at least for block holders, can now be processed through automation, which cuts down on mistakes and bad attitudes (but also cuts jobs).

Hopefully the new U will adopt the best of both crew-scheduling departments and we’ll all be the better for it.

[post="284464"][/post]​

 

[N903AW]

StewGuy86 and What a Trip, thanks for your responses! I am hoping that this merger brings the very best of both carriers together (although the Crellin threads seem to put a damper on this...YIKES).

Best regards!
N903AW

 

[firstamendment]

N903AW

Just a few extras


Block is the same as line, just in case there is any question.

SAP...Was great at one time, but because we no longer have flight options...50/70/95/100 hour, more people hang onto their trips, desperately trying to drop their trips on the ETB, limiting the amount of trips available.

Weekend obligation sucks!! You can NOT get out of working the weekends if a trip falls into your line/block, so SAP does you no good there. :angry:

The way the ETB now works, this is the company's way of throwing options out the door and putting the responibility onto the f/a's. That isn't bad, but the system seems to benefit the most senior as the most popular and easiest trips to pick up are transatlantic, 1 day Carib. turns, and 2 day redeyes. So if your senority holds only 4 day trips, you are out of luck. You will stare at that screen till the cows come home waiting for a four day to go.

Also, anything you pick UP on the ETB is pay NO credit. So you are STILL obligated to your original block time or post sap, whichever is greater. Here lies the problem. Too many times, I end up with a 93-95 hour block. If I can drop a trip in the ETB, my obligation goes down. If I want to pick UP time on the ETB, My obligation goes up. Many of us feel the trade board should be pay credit as a blockholder. If I only had 5 more years. Gee, 19 years and such worries. :blink:

There is some good news for reserves. They can pick up trips off the ETB on their days off and still get their 71 hour guarantee, so if you don't get but 20 hours for the month, but you can pick up 30 hours on the ETB, you would be paid 101 hours...71 guarantee plus 30 pay no credit. The problem with THIS? Most rsv blocks are scheduled at 3 days at a time. There are new rules that prohibit picking up trips on the first day off until 1000 and you have to be back the day before going on duty by 1800. This severly limits the reserves unless they switch around their days off. The RSVS benefitting are the PHL RSVS has there are about 15 transatlantic trips that leave late on day 1 and get back early on day 3. Those are the best trips, along with one days and red-eyes to pick up. This is bad for, say CLT because we have only 2 transatlantics and SOOO many keep those redeyes and 1 days, limiting choices.

ETB not computerized. There are glitches as schedulers process the ETB request. This will not change until merger. You guys have the better system and we will be intergrated into that computer system, which makes sense as you already have the upgraded system.

Pilots...We currently stay with our pilots for the entire trip. This is great for CRM but bad for limited scheduling. i.e. no working transcon turns over eight hours.

deadheading...50% pay no credit.. :down: :down: :down: Too many three day 8-10 hour three days and 13-18 hour four days and one days worth 1:30- 2:00. Double :down:

This is just information to let you know some of what is GOOD that we have but also some of what we as a merged group will need to get rid of or change.

I like that you guys are paid a leg if it cancels. KEEP that!!

Hope the info helps. As far as AL...IMO, 7/8? No problem.

Ciao!

 

[airlinedivalish]

US F/A not being able to drop a 4 day or weekends? That is horrid !!! No wonder you guys don't like that guy in charge of Inflight Operations. Oh my gosh. We have so much to be thankful at AWA then. No wonder you guys have to call in sick if you have something important to do. I think being able to split the 4 day into personal trades, so reserves and other F/As can pick them up helps the F/As and the company. It will eliminate some of the sick calls and helps the co. financially also. Don't they realize that when a high paying F/A drops a trip through personal trades and gives it to a lower paid F/A helps the bottom line?

Hopefully our new contract will address this and our combined contract will better your contract.

:::: Crossing my fingers ::::


P.S. - What else do you have in your contract that is good?

 

[PITbull]

I have a question for US F/As.

I do alot of personal trades and drop my trips quite a bit.
Can US F/A drop their international trips and fly domestic and vise versa? I was told by someone that you cannot.

Also can you pick up trips from other hubs? Let's say, somebody wants to drop their trip in PHL and you are CLT based.
I would like to know how flexible your schedules are. Can you drop part of your 4 day trip? Let's say you just want to do Day of Turns and you held a 4 day trip. Can you do partial trip drops and turn them into 1 day or 2 day trips through personal trade boards?

Just wondering.

[post="284137"][/post]​

You can do all those things except drop and pick up trips from other bases.

The reserves can be utilized from other bases to cover the operation only after all those reserves in that base have been utilized.

 

[PITbull]

US F/A not being able to drop a 4 day or weekends? That is horrid !!!  Oh my gosh. We have so much to be thankful at AWA then. No wonder you guys have to call in sick if you have something important to do.  I think being able to split the 4 day into personal trades, so reserves and other F/As can pick them up helps the F/As and the company. It will eliminate some of the sick calls.

Hopefully our new contract will address this and our combined contract will better your contract.

::::  Crossing my fingers ::::

[post="284534"][/post]​

You can drop trips or trip improve we call it, but if the trip falls on Sat. and Sun, you have to touch both days.

That's what 2 BKs do. Your flexibility goes down the shitter.

Welcome to Hell where Satan is alive and well and coming to a town near you.

AWA's CEO can't love his employees that much if he and his BOD made the decision to marry US Airways.