Runoff Election
- Thread starter LiveInAHotel
- Start date
I think a lot of twa'ers look at what Ward has done in 2 parts:
1. that he had total contempt for them, and needlessly, even gleefully,
offered to the company things like furlough pay, no unlimited recall provisions,
and refused to engage in any meaningful dialogue concerning integration.
2. even more importantly at this point, as most twa'ers feel that the courts ALONE
will decide the seniority issue, and probably is history is any indication, in their favor, and they will come out ahead in the long run...$$ penalities, back pay,
and a seniority number that will be better than what they could have negotiated
with an arbitrator....the pilots, the mechanics, etc. settled for far less than
doh, the flight attendants stand a much better outcome via the courts. All the twa'ers realize that issue will be decided in the courts. So why vote Ward out?
because he is too inexperienced, too much of a company boy, to be leading this union....The twa'ers know they are coming back...they just don't want to come back to the current working conditions.....Even tho things at twa were never
that $$ stable, at least they have really good work rules....they had a lot of options, and a lot of flexibility....satellite based trips, furlough pay, free medical,
etc.etc.etc....that more than made up the lower hourly pay....What Ward was unable to see when he negotiated the RPA were the consequences of his actions.
he just didn't have the experience, the wisdom, or the intellectual ability to see past his actions or his anger towards the twa'ers....
yes, it will be YEARS before this works it way thru the courts......so why would the twa'ers even care about getting Ward out of office? because it will take YEARS to undo much of what Ward did (and failed to do) during the non-negotiations leading up to the RPA.... nAAtives are now working under those conditions...the most senior really aren't that seriously impacted by the RPA, it is the mid level and most junior that have been impacted....and if you ask them, they are not really happy with what Ward has done to their careers....
Most twa'ers are unionists...and realize that what hurts one, hurts all...they would have supported doing whatever it took to keep EVERYONE working....and there were a number of options available to have that happen. But Ward couldn't see that....he just doesn't have the experience AND more importantly, he couldn't get beyond the "US and THEM" mentality....like it not....the twa'ers are now aa'ers.
and when the courts work thru it, they will more than likely be somewhat senior AA'ers....
There are a lot of twa'er who NEVER want to work for AA., at this point. They just want the retirement, the medical, the lifetime passes, and to retire. And they will not retire before they get it. They will wait this out.
so as much as the majority of the nAAtives deserve working under the Ward RPA,
the majority of the twa'ers realize they will coming back and would prefer that EVERYONE have jobs worth having....not just the most senior...and those that can
hold IDF..... no, I don't think you will see Ward back on the line, working under his own RPA. And not because he will win in the run-off..but because he is shrew enough to have negotiated something with AMR management
before he signed away the careers of his fellow flight attendants....
1. that he had total contempt for them, and needlessly, even gleefully,
offered to the company things like furlough pay, no unlimited recall provisions,
and refused to engage in any meaningful dialogue concerning integration.
2. even more importantly at this point, as most twa'ers feel that the courts ALONE
will decide the seniority issue, and probably is history is any indication, in their favor, and they will come out ahead in the long run...$$ penalities, back pay,
and a seniority number that will be better than what they could have negotiated
with an arbitrator....the pilots, the mechanics, etc. settled for far less than
doh, the flight attendants stand a much better outcome via the courts. All the twa'ers realize that issue will be decided in the courts. So why vote Ward out?
because he is too inexperienced, too much of a company boy, to be leading this union....The twa'ers know they are coming back...they just don't want to come back to the current working conditions.....Even tho things at twa were never
that $$ stable, at least they have really good work rules....they had a lot of options, and a lot of flexibility....satellite based trips, furlough pay, free medical,
etc.etc.etc....that more than made up the lower hourly pay....What Ward was unable to see when he negotiated the RPA were the consequences of his actions.
he just didn't have the experience, the wisdom, or the intellectual ability to see past his actions or his anger towards the twa'ers....
yes, it will be YEARS before this works it way thru the courts......so why would the twa'ers even care about getting Ward out of office? because it will take YEARS to undo much of what Ward did (and failed to do) during the non-negotiations leading up to the RPA.... nAAtives are now working under those conditions...the most senior really aren't that seriously impacted by the RPA, it is the mid level and most junior that have been impacted....and if you ask them, they are not really happy with what Ward has done to their careers....
Most twa'ers are unionists...and realize that what hurts one, hurts all...they would have supported doing whatever it took to keep EVERYONE working....and there were a number of options available to have that happen. But Ward couldn't see that....he just doesn't have the experience AND more importantly, he couldn't get beyond the "US and THEM" mentality....like it not....the twa'ers are now aa'ers.
and when the courts work thru it, they will more than likely be somewhat senior AA'ers....
There are a lot of twa'er who NEVER want to work for AA., at this point. They just want the retirement, the medical, the lifetime passes, and to retire. And they will not retire before they get it. They will wait this out.
so as much as the majority of the nAAtives deserve working under the Ward RPA,
the majority of the twa'ers realize they will coming back and would prefer that EVERYONE have jobs worth having....not just the most senior...and those that can
hold IDF..... no, I don't think you will see Ward back on the line, working under his own RPA. And not because he will win in the run-off..but because he is shrew enough to have negotiated something with AMR management
before he signed away the careers of his fellow flight attendants....
I also agree that Ward has negotiated something with the company so that he would not have to be back on the line if not elected.
And I also agree that even if Ward is revoted in - they are the ones that have to deal with the working conditions. Then they deserve what they get (however, I feel sorry for the ones that have to live with it and didn't vote for Ward). I get really irritated that they voted themselves a raise - while everyone else took a pay cut, or lost their job!
Both the Reno f/a's and the TWA have been treated unfairly - I wished we would have been around to help the Reno people.
And I also agree that even if Ward is revoted in - they are the ones that have to deal with the working conditions. Then they deserve what they get (however, I feel sorry for the ones that have to live with it and didn't vote for Ward). I get really irritated that they voted themselves a raise - while everyone else took a pay cut, or lost their job!
Both the Reno f/a's and the TWA have been treated unfairly - I wished we would have been around to help the Reno people.
- Thread Starter
- #19
The Reno flight attendants didn't have a contract when AA acquired them. They had just voted to have the Teamsters (I believe) to represent them.jsn25911 said:
I'm not mad at anyone. If Ward doesn't win we move on. I'm not a huge fan of Ward but I think he is our best option. One thing Ward has in his favor that eveyone wants to forget is - He was the one here when we got the best contract we ever had. I'm over the concession issue already, I'm ready to look ahead and put the best canidate in office that will help us in the next round. Alot of people are looking for a scape goat for what happended last year. I say turn the other way and look down the road a bit. The sooner we get organized for our next round of negotiations the better. You are right, alot of people are uninformed. Its just like the TW'ers on this board that blame AA and APFA for all their problems, TW was on the verge of disappearing without AA stepping in. Ward is not the cause of all our concessions, every group took a hit. Could we have come out a little better? Maybe, but I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water.jsn25911 said:
Miami State:
If Ward doesn't win we move on.............................
I'm ready to look ahead and put the best canidate in office that will help us in the next round.
So Miami - when the TWA people get back to work (possibly with seniority) are you going to accept what the court
s decision - or are you always going to be fighting the decision? Don't debate the issue of whether we will win or not - that is not the question. I am asking if you will accept the decision of the court -AND MOVE ON....?
If Ward doesn't win we move on.............................
I'm ready to look ahead and put the best canidate in office that will help us in the next round.
So Miami - when the TWA people get back to work (possibly with seniority) are you going to accept what the court
s decision - or are you always going to be fighting the decision? Don't debate the issue of whether we will win or not - that is not the question. I am asking if you will accept the decision of the court -AND MOVE ON....?
If after ALL legal means have been exhausted a court grants anything to you I won't have a choice but to move on and live with it. However, I am very confident that the seniority suit will follow previous suits like this one (ie Reno).
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- Nov 24, 2003
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Boeing had an offer on the table, which is why AA made its move when it did, it wanted to keep ahead of United and did not want to lose that opportunity.MiAAmi said:
Totally different issues and legal grounds were involved in the Reno suit. Its outcome has no bearing on the eventual outcome of the TWA law suits.
Yes the issues and venue are totally different. The issues linked to Reno are vastly dissimilar to the claims of the TWA F/As. Suggest you read the brief posted here somewhere.
Ward is out and no time to soon for me. He has brought us back 20 years in our contract and out careers. The odds of anyone voting for him a second time around are slim at best. All the people I have chatted with people who didn't vote for Tommie were far totally opposed to JW, in the run off it will be for Tommie. She does have to worry about voter apathy though. Like Denise's second term run off, fewer people voted the second time around than the first. Tommie is by far the best candidate. Experience and time tested knowledge.
Given the strength of the issues, constitution violations, rest rules, supposedly a dozen lawsuits, and yes even one we disagree on, the TWAers issue, wouldn't you think Mikey that turnout out to be stronger second time around? Maybe you can give us outsiders some insight into the apathy?
1011, it has not been that way in the past. I am trying to find the run off tally of Denise's run off. So far no luck, but I know I have it some where. Apathy abounds. Flight attendants in general think that the union is a hired outside body that serves the purpose to get them out of work. Instead of an internal body that basically sets up parameters which we use to establish how when where we work.
i know one thing is that tommie will have a hell of a time getting the junior votes! its unfortunate but true from my point of view. :unsure: i don't like ward either. :down: he is the reason why i lost my car and am in severe debt. but i'd rather loose that stuff for now than not know how tommie stands on the twa seniorty issue. everytime i or someone else asks for her stance on it she is so vague. it is not very comforting to us junior people who were hired by AA. we all must vote on the issues that affect us. unfortunately i don't think tommie has my best intentions in mind. but hey...you win some, you loose some. 
What more do you want from her - here is her statement of committement. You arespreading lies! She said she will ensure its final and successful conclusion as it was written.fliboi78 said:i know one thing is that tommie will have a hell of a time getting the junior votes! its unfortunate but true from my point of view. :unsure: i don't like ward either. :down: he is the reason why i lost my car and am in severe debt. but i'd rather loose that stuff for now than not know how tommie stands on the twa seniorty issue. everytime i or someone else asks for her stance on it she is so vague. it is not very comforting to us junior people who were hired by AA. we all must vote on the issues that affect us. unfortunately i don't think tommie has my best intentions in mind. but hey...you win some, you loose some.
From www.backontherighttrack.com:
January 2004
Letter of Commitment
To: 24,253 American Airlines Flight Attendants
I, Tommie Hutto-Blake, and my team of
fellow candidates: Brett Durkin, Greg
Hildreth and Cathy Hermann Lukensmeyer, are
100% committed to protecting and defending
the TWA Seniority Agreement as it stands
today.
Although it has been stagnant in the
court system under the Ward Administration
only to resurface as a scare tactic in this
campaign, if elected, we are committed to
ensuring its final and successful conclusion
as it was written and unanimously passed by
the APFA Board of Directors in 2001.
In Unity and in Trust,
Tommie Hutto-Blake
Brett Durkin
Greg Hildreth
Cathy Hermann Lukensmeyer
