screw me once shame on me..........

[furp]

They said.......
"PULL TOGETHER WIN TOGETHER" and we all bought into it to save our airline!!!
Then they richly rewarded themselves with our sacrifices and laughed at us when we asked "where is ours?"
Now all I have to say is......

F.U.R.P.

They have proven to be just another bunch of white collor crooks just like Carty!! They all must go!
THIS IS OUR AIRLINE!!! I have more time invested with my airline than our pay does!!! :down: :down: :down:
Give us our concessions back, five years cost of living increases and let us all go back to running our airline!!!!!!!!!

 

[Garfield1966]

Give you back your concessions? Lol. Now that's funny ... I don't care who you are lol.

 

[The Goose]

They said.......
"PULL TOGETHER WIN TOGETHER" and will all bought into it to save our airline!!!
Then they richly rewarded themselves with our sacrifices and laughed at us when we asked "where is ours?"
Now all I have to say is......

F.U.R.P.

They have proven to be just another bunch white collor crooks just like Carty!! They all must go!
THIS IS OUR AIRLINE!!! I have more time invested with my airline that our pay does!!! :down: :down: :down:
Give us our concessions back and let us all go back to running our airline!!!!!!!!!

Arpey and Carty would not dare do what they do/did or anything else, for that matter, without the blessing of the board of directors, our true enemies.

Quit complaining about Carty - his departure, I believe, was carefully orchestrated to appear as though he left because he got caught in the cookie jar. This is crap. I believe he was leaving anyway.

If anyone actually cared what AA's employees thought, Arpey and company would have been gone a week ago.

As an example, the "bankruptcy proof" retirement funding for the top executives was set up at the request of the BOD, not Carty or minions even though it was to their benefit, yet he alone was villified and supposedly "forced" to resign because of the fund the BOD directed to be set up for their buddies. All Carty did was knowingly try to get the conract voting done, as directed by the BOD, before the news of the executive retirement funding came out in the quarterly report filed with the SEC.

Damn - I got a great belly laugh from that one.

The TWU raised hell, there was the requisite and predictable posturing by all organizations involved, we were bought off with a pittance of stock, received promises by management to "do better", and took our concessions like good little sheep.

It's rather difficult, if not impossible, to believe the TWU leadership at all levels were not complicit in this. Unfortunately, there is, for sure, much worse so-called "representation" out there, not better as some would have us believe, as many former NWA mechanics would say.

F. U. R. P.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Quit complaining about Carty - his departure, I believe, was carefully orchestrated to appear as though he left because he got caught in the cookie jar. This is crap. I believe he was leaving anyway.

Yup. I have always believed that.

.

 

[AC AA LA FA]

Yup. I have always believed that.

.

ditto....

 

[eolesen]

Quit complaining about Carty - his departure, I believe, was carefully orchestrated to appear as though he left because he got caught in the cookie jar. This is crap. I believe he was leaving anyway.

I'm not convinced he was planning to leave, but it is entirely possible the outside directors wanted him gone and used this as the opportunity to throw him out.

As an example, the "bankruptcy proof" retirement funding for the top executives was set up at the request of the BOD, not Carty or minions even though it was to their benefit, yet he alone was villified and supposedly "forced" to resign because of the fund the BOD directed to be set up for their buddies. All Carty did was knowingly try to get the conract voting done, as directed by the BOD, before the news of the executive retirement funding came out in the quarterly report filed with the SEC.

Point of order... the SERP existed for about 15 or 20 years prior to 2003. All management did was to finally provide the trust with seed money. For the previous 15/20 years, plan benefits were being paid out of revenues, which is the same thing that would have happened in the highly unlikely event that pension obligations exceeded the current day assets of the plan.

 

[Bob Owens]

Arpey and Carty would not dare do what they do/did or anything else, for that matter, without the blessing of the board of directors, our true enemies.

Yea, Rojer Staubach couldnt wait to get out of football and screw over airline workers. Give me a break, most of the BOD are nothing but puppets with rubber stamps.

Quit complaining about Carty - his departure, I believe, was carefully orchestrated to appear as though he left because he got caught in the cookie jar. This is crap. I believe he was leaving anyway.

Agreed, and I said so at the time, however Little claimed that he got him fired, yea right!

The blame lies with Arpey and his team, the excuse that "they were just following orders" didnt fly for the original NAZIs either.

The TWU raised hell,

???!!!! When was that?

there was the requisite and predictable posturing by all organizations involved, we were bought off with a pittance of stock, received promises by management to "do better", and took our concessions like good little sheep.

Some did, Local 562 didnt.

It's rather difficult, if not impossible, to believe the TWU leadership at all levels were not complicit in this.

Agreed, $3.1 million a year goes a long way with the TWU.

Unfortunately, there is, for sure, much worse so-called "representation" out there, not better as some would have us believe, as many former NWA mechanics would say.

An unfortunate result does not neccisarily mean poor representation, at least they got to vote and make up their own minds unlike our Jim Little ratified contract.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

it is entirely possible the outside directors wanted him gone and used this as the opportunity to throw him out.

Why do you think they wanted him out?

 

[The Goose]

Agreed, $3.1 million a year goes a long way with the TWU.
An unfortunate result does not neccisarily mean poor representation, at least they got to vote and make up their own minds unlike our Jim Little ratified contract.

The way I remember the order of events, NWA's membership was not allowed to vote on the company offers because of something in the amfa constitution that "wouldn't allow" what they'd be agreeing to if ratified; basically what was agreed to ending the strike.

You may well have a love for amfa and del Femine, but don't try to pass off lies as facts. It's not been that long ago this happened; too many followed the news and remember. Try again in ten years or so.

I believe amfa's officers were bought off by NWA to take the membership out on strike.

Why do you think they wanted him out?

I seriously doubt they wanted him gone. I believe Carty was ready to leave and the board had him "take a hit for the team" on the way out.

By doing this, many of AMR's labor problems were temporarily solved, and the TWU's credibility, at that time, enhanced. All it cost the company was relatively few shares of stock which was, I assure you, expensed properly at tax time as a write off (a hit against profits).

 

[ch53D]

The way I remember the order of events, NWA's membership was not allowed to vote on the company offers because of something in the amfa constitution that "wouldn't allow" what they'd be agreeing to if ratified; basically what was agreed to ending the strike.

I believe the membership gave the National President the right to strike by 92.4% in favor of a strike. I guess that vote means nothing to you. As you can see in the links below it even got worse in the final hours of the last ditch negotiations that led to a strike.

http://web.archive.org/web/20051226104137/...uth20050719.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/20060211131322/...ase_8-19-05.pdf

 

[Bob Owens]

The way I remember the order of events, NWA's membership was not allowed to vote on the company offers because of something in the amfa constitution that "wouldn't allow" what they'd be agreeing to if ratified; basically what was agreed to ending the strike.

You may well have a love for amfa and del Femine, but don't try to pass off lies as facts. It's not been that long ago this happened; too many followed the news and remember. Try again in ten years or so.

I think C53D addressed that well enough. 92% is a wide unquestionable margin. The members made their choice clearly.

I believe amfa's officers were bought off by NWA to take the membership out on strike.

Well we have evidence of the TWUs $3.1 million buyoff, do you have any evidence to support your beliefs?

 

[TWU informer]

Goose,

You seem to have all your so-called facts together regarding your hate for AMFA. Although I suspect you have incorrect facts, you still seem to have them in your mind.

What about the TWU? Can you give us any facts regarding the TWU? Afterall, that is our current union at what should matter most going into negotiations.

Can you provide these facts:

How many of the current TWU International Officers including the ATD were APPOINTED?

How much does the average TWU member pay via paycheck deduction and out-of-pocket expense for Medical Insurance?

How many past Conventions has the membership submitted a resolution to require direct election of International Officers?

What year did the TWU Convention remove re-call of Local Union Officers?

What is the average total loss of income including medical payment increase to a TWU Member over the course of the restructuring agreement?

Was the addition $500 Million in savings ever projected in the $620 Million Concession of the 2003 Restructuring Agreement?

You made mention of AMFA members not being able to vote on a contract as you remember it. Was the current TWU Agreement signed without further ratification of the members and a Federal Court Document confirmed the members have no right to a vote on modifcations to the Labor Agreement under the TWU Constitution?


These are just a few simple facts that someone with your knowledge should have regarding your current union. Please provide the facts, and if you cannot please explain why you cannot.

One last question for you. How has your burn injury healed to date?

 

[The Goose]

I think C53D addressed that well enough. 92% is a wide unquestionable margin. The members made their choice clearly.
Well we have evidence of the TWUs $3.1 million buyoff, do you have any evidence to support your beliefs?

I fail to understand how you can say there was a 92% vote when the NWA membership were not allowed to vote on the first TA at NWA. The 92% vote was to end the strike - the only vote these people got.

As to the $3.1 million buyoff at AA of the TWU - I have no doubt this occured. If you have evidence of this as you suggest, I hope you will do more with it than reference said on this board.

 

[The Goose]

Goose,

You seem to have all your so-called facts together regarding your hate for AMFA. Although I suspect you have incorrect facts, you still seem to have them in your mind.

What about the TWU? Can you give us any facts regarding the TWU? Afterall, that is our current union at what should matter most going into negotiations.

Can you provide these facts:

How many of the current TWU International Officers including the ATD were APPOINTED?

How much does the average TWU member pay via paycheck deduction and out-of-pocket expense for Medical Insurance?

How many past Conventions has the membership submitted a resolution to require direct election of International Officers?

What year did the TWU Convention remove re-call of Local Union Officers?

What is the average total loss of income including medical payment increase to a TWU Member over the course of the restructuring agreement?

Was the addition $500 Million in savings ever projected in the $620 Million Concession of the 2003 Restructuring Agreement?

You made mention of AMFA members not being able to vote on a contract as you remember it. Was the current TWU Agreement signed without further ratification of the members and a Federal Court Document confirmed the members have no right to a vote on modifcations to the Labor Agreement under the TWU Constitution?
These are just a few simple facts that someone with your knowledge should have regarding your current union. Please provide the facts, and if you cannot please explain why you cannot.

One last question for you. How has your burn injury healed to date?

All of your facts only confirm one representative organization is no better than the other. I'm quite well aware of the TWU's shenanigans re: their "international" level. So much has been given away there's little (no pun intended) left to bargain with. As for the TWU's international level, it's evident these people have worked hard to ensure they are accountable to nobody.

My complaint with the scam association, amfa, is it's beliefs that are based in the same social Darwinism that drives AMR's executives to tell us how much they deserve their bonuses (we're better than you, therefore ..."). Any group that is willing to divide it's membership in a manner similar to India's caste system is no good for any of its members.

amfa achieved its popularity for no other reason that being the ONLY group out there not hobbled by the AFL-CIO's "no-raid" policy at that time. You know that (it's akin to a guy getting married to whatever will have him - it probably won't work very well).

Otherwise, they offered nothing. No affiliations, no strength or peer respect, and had no problem with offending real unions and their respective memberships (then asking for help with their ill-advised strike against NWA). I found it quite comical that over 500 instances of the word "union" were deleted from the NWA contract book, then to see how many of their supporters referred to amfa as a union when it became obvious their strike wasn't going very well. This was and still is a group of amateurs hacks looking for the best deal.

This is where I have a major problem in the upcoming TWU elections. I (any many others) will not vote for former amfa supporters due to the devisive beliefs of same. Backpeddle all you wish. Most haven't forgotten.

As far as the SOS (same old ####) crowd seeking reelection or upgrading their positions, many won't vote for them either. My ballot will be returned with few selections - the field of candidates is sickening.

In short - the TWU is a mess due to self serving ambition and will, without a doubt, become worse regardless of which belief is installed to office.

It's alot like deciding between democrats and republicans - all that's at issue is deciding how one wishes to be screwed.

ps - burn injury? All that got burned was my (and others') ass in 2003.

 

[ch53D]

I fail to understand how you can say there was a 92% vote when the NWA membership were not allowed to vote on the first TA at NWA. The 92% vote was to end the strike - the only vote these people got.

As to the $3.1 million buyoff at AA of the TWU - I have no doubt this occured. If you have evidence of this as you suggest, I hope you will do more with it than reference said on this board.

So what you’re saying is this document below is the vote to end the strike! That’s funny. You surely don’t understand the time line of events do you? This document is 30 day before the strike started.

http://web.archive.org/web/20051226104137/...uth20050719.pdf

The strike ended November 6, 2006. The vote was 72% yes 28% no.

http://amfanational.org/index.php?option=c...71&Itemid=2