"Super Session" Negotiations

[The Goose]

I've been hearing bits and pieces that Fleet Circus, being the largest group, is running this ongoing lovefest.

Anyone care to confirm/deny/speculate/cuss, or whatever? What do others out there hear?

 

[Stock Clerks Need Luv Too!]

I've been hearing bits and pieces that Fleet Circus, being the largest group, is running this ongoing lovefest.

Anyone care to confirm/deny/speculate/cuss, or whatever? What do others out there hear?

Yes, you are correct. Rumor here at DFW is that a Union insider said that it is not looking good for us at all. Fleet is willing to take anything they are offered. I'm hearing 3 yr contract, 5% raise, no signing offer, everything else is concessionary as in the previous offer. And no retirement, not sure if that is for newcomers or for us all.

 

[bigdawg52]

I've been hearing bits and pieces that Fleet Circus, being the largest group, is running this ongoing lovefest.

Anyone care to confirm/deny/speculate/cuss, or whatever? What do others out there hear?

Obviously somebody with your superior intelect would be able to find this info out. I know but I am only fleet circus, so will not reply to such an idiot.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes, you are correct. Rumor here at DFW is that a Union insider said that it is not looking good for us at all. Fleet is willing to take anything they are offered. I'm hearing 3 yr contract, 5% raise, no signing offer, everything else is concessionary as in the previous offer. And no retirement, not sure if that is for newcomers or for us all.

DFW fleet here also. First off calm down. Lets put the rumor mill to bed will you. When you write something like this all you do is let the company know what they think the members resolve is. Stand up for yourself brother. We'll know whats going on in a few more days. Patience.

 

[The Goose]

Yes, you are correct. Rumor here at DFW is that a Union insider said that it is not looking good for us at all. Fleet is willing to take anything they are offered. I'm hearing 3 yr contract, 5% raise, no signing offer, everything else is concessionary as in the previous offer. And no retirement, not sure if that is for newcomers or for us all.

I guess that's what happens when the involved parties split their influence as was done some years ago.

Evidently, decoupling from the "rabble" wasn't quite the panacea some thought it would be, huh? "The company is ready to give the mechanics what they ask for but don't want to extend the raises to the lower forms of life".

While probably not word-for-word, does anyone besides me remember that line of thought and the attendant "promises" that went along with it?

I'm getting to the point I really don't give a damn. While I will read what comes out of this company/union Mazola party, it's an almost sure bet I'll be voting "no" on whatever comes back. Little can then accept the contract on our behalf, then a card drive for something will start.

What a cluster. It would be much more entertaining were we not in the middle watching.

 

[WeAAsles]

Hey Goose. Us lower forms of life are harder to replace actually than you are. ( I.E. Northwest, AMFA) Because there is NO school for what we do is the reason why! And it really made me laugh yesterday when 2 mechanics couldn't figure out how to disconnect a huff from a towbar? Your education at work for you Goose.

To the other professional mechanics on here my apologies. I know this person doesn't speak for all of you.

 

[bigdawg52]

Hey Goose. Us lower forms of life are harder to replace actually than you are. ( I.E. Northwest, AMFA) Because there is NO school for what we do is the reason why! And it really made me laugh yesterday when 2 mechanics couldn't figure out how to disconnect a huff from a towbar? Your education at work for you Goose.

To the other professional mechanics on here my apologies. I know this person doesn't speak for all of you.

Nice post weaasles, could not said it better myself. Just some AMT's always think they are so much better (Goose) than their fellow employees. Goose you amaze me at your imature antics

 

[The Goose]

Hey Goose. Us lower forms of life are harder to replace actually than you are. ( I.E. Northwest, AMFA) Because there is NO school for what we do is the reason why! And it really made me laugh yesterday when 2 mechanics couldn't figure out how to disconnect a huff from a towbar? Your education at work for you Goose.

To the other professional mechanics on here my apologies. I know this person doesn't speak for all of you.

Evidently, you and your bud didn't pick up on the jab I took at the real "superior" makaniks for wanting to separate negotiations some years ago. Not surprising that you missed the meaning.

It never ceases to amaze me how, regardless of what was said or meant, there's always someone waiting in the wings ready to take offense at a moment's notice as if it's a sacred duty to do so. Such is life in a PC world, I guess.

While that's not what I said at all, I'll leave you gents to your fantasies. I'll not start a pissing match here - much better to do with my time.

 

[WeAAsles]

If it was meant to be sarcastic at some of the people who I know you're talking about, then my apologies to you Goose. I just wish all of us Unionistas (Eolsens word) would stick together for the benefit of all of us. I guess only in a perfect world? AA strategy " Divide and Conquer"

 

[restore03]

How will Southwests tentative agreement affect our negotiations?

Here are some of the particulars sent out by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association:

• 3 percent pay raises in 2009, 2010 and 2011 and 1 percent in 2012, leaving pay rates 10.4 percent higher after the last raise.

• A 3 percent ratification bonus, not a pay raise, upon approval of the contract.

• 1 percent productivity bonuses each year, 2009-2012, that don't increase the pay rates.

• Southwest can send up to four lines of maintenance work to companies outside the United States, but with limits on the instances in which that could occur.

• As part of language to protect jobs, Southwest must keep at least 2.75 mechanics for every airplane, which is nearly 1,400 mechanics based on Southwest's Sept. 30 fleet of 538 aircraft.

 

[Bob Owens]

How will Southwests tentative agreement affect our negotiations?

Here are some of the particulars sent out by the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association:

• 3 percent pay raises in 2009, 2010 and 2011 and 1 percent in 2012, leaving pay rates 10.4 percent higher after the last raise.

• A 3 percent ratification bonus, not a pay raise, upon approval of the contract.

• 1 percent productivity bonuses each year, 2009-2012, that don't increase the pay rates.

• Southwest can send up to four lines of maintenance work to companies outside the United States, but with limits on the instances in which that could occur.

• As part of language to protect jobs, Southwest must keep at least 2.75 mechanics for every airplane, which is nearly 1,400 mechanics based on Southwest's Sept. 30 fleet of 538 aircraft.

So what would that put SWA at ? My guess is around $45/hr.

 

[Birdman]

So what would that put SWA at ? My guess is around $45/hr.

According to AA's negotiaaion website with all airline wages they now top out at $40.85. A 3% signing bonus is about $2,500. A 3% per hour raise averages about a $1.25 an hour every year for 3 years. A 1% per year productivity bonus is about $850. Not bad!

 

[aafsc]

So what would that put SWA at ? My guess is around $45/hr.

I agree with your estimate. As we all know Southwest (along with UPS and Fed EX) has always outsourced their heavy overhaul. That why they (along with UPS and Fed Ex) can pay their relatively few AMTs top dollar. The question that must be asked is "Is this potential raise really going to increase Southwests maintenance labor costs or are they just cutting cost in one area (sending work from a domestic hack shop to foreign hack shop) to compensate for an increase in another (SWA AMT line mechanics)?" An A&P in a domestic MRO shop makes about $20-$25 an hour. I can only guess what they pay those AMTs in El Salvador (maybe $10/hr tops??guessing). Moving four lines of heavy overhaul from a domestic MRO to a Central American MRO provides the savings needed to pay the aforementioned $45/hr to Southwest AMTs.

AA can easily match Southwest AMT pay. All they would have to do is dump TUL, AFW, MCI, and DWH, freeze the pension, return the retiree medical prefunding and end it, and cut their AMT workforce to 1,400.

 

[Stock Clerks Need Luv Too!]

DFW fleet here also. First off calm down. Lets put the rumor mill to bed will you. When you write something like this all you do is let the company know what they think the members resolve is. Stand up for yourself brother. We'll know whats going on in a few more days. Patience.

The company is well aware that fleet service is willing to accept anything...your negotiating committee let them know that when they agreed to put the last concessionary offer to a vote by the members. The only reason it didn't come to a vote is because Mntc & Stores turned it down and it was an all or none deal.
We overwhelmingly let our negotiating team know, they made us proud.
Did you stand up for yourself and let your team know they embarrassed you?

 

[Hackman]

I agree with your estimate. As we all know Southwest (along with UPS and Fed EX) has always outsourced their heavy overhaul. That why they (along with UPS and Fed Ex) can pay their relatively few AMTs top dollar. The question that must be asked is "Is this potential raise really going to increase Southwests maintenance labor costs or are they just cutting cost in one area (sending work from a domestic hack shop to foreign hack shop) to compensate for an increase in another (SWA AMT line mechanics)?" An A&P in a domestic MRO shop makes about $20-$25 an hour. I can only guess what they pay those AMTs in El Salvador (maybe $10/hr tops??guessing). Moving four lines of heavy overhaul from a domestic MRO to a Central American MRO provides the savings needed to pay the aforementioned $45/hr to Southwest AMTs.

AA can easily match Southwest AMT pay. All they would have to do is dump TUL, AFW, MCI, and DWH, freeze the pension, return the retiree medical prefunding and end it, and cut their AMT workforce to 1,400.

Maybe you should stick to ramper issues aafsc, your wrong again. SWA does not outsource all their maintenance. In fact, they have brought more back inhouse because of the FAA fuselage crack issues. They have 4 or 5 heavy check lines at Love Field called Phase Checks, which I believe is equal to AA's C Check. In addition, any outsourcing at SWA started when the Reamsters were on the property, yes, before AMFA booted them out. I know your disapointed, as you can't blame AMFA for this.

Of course, we know AA could match SWA AMT pay. However, with the twu, they won't have to, the twu will sellout AMT's to keep rampers at top dollar first. This is also indicated by the 1000 AMT's still on the street, will all rampers recalled.