Tempe Going CHEAP on the A330-200's

[US Oringinal]

I got the word yesterday about two things Tempe is planning to do to the new A330-200's.

1) Coach seat-pitch will match the ridiculous seat-pitch the A330's we currently have which is a PALTRY 31". Southwest has 2" more on their 737's!! And we're going to be subjecting our passengers to these miserable conditions for 12-14hours at a time!!! aNYBODY WHO HAS RIDDEN IN COACH ON OUR A330s TO EUROPE KNOWS HOW TERRIBLE IT IS! :down:
Despite the constant complaints, Tempe is going to do it again to a new aircraft....

Also,

2) The company will NOT be providing isolated crew bunks for F/A's for these aircraft, depsite the fact the pilots will have them and despite the fact that it is industry standard to provide crew bunks for F/A"s on truly long-haul aircraft. The company has proposed "ottomans" for F/A use at set-aside coach passenger seats!!!!! NO CREW BUNKS FOR F/A'S ON FLIGHTS OF 12-15 HOURS, DUTY DAYS UPTO 18HOURS!! :angry: THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE!!!

One more example of a regional airline's management trying to run an International airline. And another example of Tempe not giving us the tools to do our jobs correctly. Thanks, Sandcastle guys!

AFA is fighting for crew bunks, but the company, at this point, is saying no. Fight harder AFA!

Flight crews need to Email ASKINFLIGHT and other company execs to express their feelings on the crew bunk situation, and EVERYONE should write US managemnet about the seat-pitch issue.

Passengers WILL NOT fly again on an airline that gives them 31" of seat pitch for a 15hour flight!

(These are only my opinions--spare me the meeting with my supervisor)

 

[hp_fa]

Don't interpret this as being against your basic premise, it isn't. However the company knows darn well that trips on the A-330 will go very senior to the point that they could care less about crew amenities. They also know that despite not pleasing AFA with their decision, AFA will not do much because the A-330 fleet will be too small to be really be worth arguing about at contract time anyway.

 

[NoMoreKoolAid]

I read the email from AFA on the issue. What a joke. I see Cindy Simone offered us an ottoman for our feet? That woman needs to be shipped back to moon township. Where will she get them, Pier One? Will they have a shoop design? Did anyone tell her the FAA will require them to be secured? Not to mention sitting upright trying to rest is horrible as it is! These people are whackadoos. AFA needs to fight harder. It's BS and not industry standard.

 

[LD3]

How hard is it it figure out "Happy employees mean Happy customers"

 

[US Oringinal]

Don't interpret this as being against your basic premise, it isn't. However the company knows darn well that trips on the A-330 will go very senior to the point that they could care less about crew amenities. They also know that despite not pleasing AFA with their decision, AFA will not do much because the A-330 fleet will be too small to be really be worth arguing about at contract time anyway.

HUH??? UMMM...where to start....

--we're going to be getting LOTS of A330's in the next few years--like 15 more for a total of like 24(somewhere in that ballpark)

--what does the seniority of the F/A's have to do with anything??

--the AFA and company are negotiating new work rules NOW for the A330-200 and upcoming TLV service beginning this summer.

THE POINT IS: TEMPE IS WELL ON ITS WAY TO SCREWING UP AGAIN! THEY SIMPLY CANNOT OR WILL NOT DO THE RIGHT THINGS WHEN IT COMES TO EMPLOYEES, CUSTOMERS AND INTERNATIONAL SERVICE.

(again..my opinions...my guess is that they're widely held opinions too)

 

[US Oringinal]

How hard is it it figure out "Happy employees mean Happy customers"

I don't think Tempe cares about either one....

 

[PHL]

1) Coach seat-pitch will match the ridiculous seat-pitch the A330's we currently have which is a PALTRY 31". Southwest has 2" more on their 737's!! And we're going to be subjecting our passengers to these miserable conditions for 12-14hours at a time!!! aNYBODY WHO HAS RIDDEN IN COACH ON OUR A330s TO EUROPE KNOWS HOW TERRIBLE IT IS! .....

Passengers WILL NOT fly again on an airline that gives them 31" of seat pitch for a 15hour flight!

US is keeping pace with (though not doing anything to exceed it) the seating arrangements of 99% of the competition.

CO - 31" in coach on their 777 and 757 models. 32" on their 767 variants.
UA - 31" in standard economy on all their long haul aircraft (747/767/777)
DL - 31" throughout economy on long haul aircraft (767, 777)
AA - 31" throughout economy on 777, and a horrendous 30" in the 767-300!!!

So then I checked some international carriers for comparison:
LH - 31-32" on the 747 and A3xx
VS - 32" throughout the long haul fleet (and 38" in premium econ!!)
BA - 31" throughout..38" in premium econ
QF - 31" throughout...38" in premium econ - even on the new A380)

So, I don't see US doing anything less than the competition as far as coach goes. It'd be nice if they would have gone with a small section of premium economy. But that'd be reaching way too high.

As for the crew rest, it sux but there are other airlines with long trips like this one that don't have an F/A rest area. The company is right - these trips will be bid no matter what the sleeping conditions are. Especially since there is about a 30+ hour stopover before working the return trip.

 

[US Oringinal]

US is keeping pace with (though not doing anything to exceed it) the seating arrangements of 99% of the competition.

CO - 31" in coach on their 777 and 757 models. 32" on their 767 variants.
UA - 31" in standard economy on all their long haul aircraft (747/767/777)
DL - 31" throughout economy on long haul aircraft (767, 777)
AA - 31" throughout economy on 777, and a horrendous 30" in the 767-300!!!

So then I checked some international carriers for comparison:
LH - 31-32" on the 747 and A3xx
VS - 32" throughout the long haul fleet (and 38" in premium econ!!)
BA - 31" throughout..38" in premium econ
QF - 31" throughout...38" in premium econ - even on the new A380)

So, I don't see US doing anything less than the competition as far as coach goes. It'd be nice if they would have gone with a small section of premium economy. But that'd be reaching way too high.

As for the crew rest, it sux but there are other airlines with long trips like this one that don't have an F/A rest area. The company is right - these trips will be bid no matter what the sleeping conditions are. Especially since there is about a 30+ hour stopover before working the return trip.

THe big difference is....WE ARE NOT COMPETITIVE WITH THE OTHERS IN TERMS OF CUSTOMER SERVICE....AT ALL. This was just told to me by someone high-up on our"east coast" management staff. Our DOT complaint record and results from onboard surveys say it loud and clear: US ranks LAST in customer service among the majors......and unless Tempe starts making some "smart" decisions soon to make us competitive, we may not be around too much longer.

PERCETION IS REALITY in business......

 

[PHL]

You're right, but all things equal...if the others are operating their flights with 31" pitch, then US doesn't have to change that to improve customer satisfaction. There are a slew of other things they can (and should) do, though....

 

[US Oringinal]

You're right

THANK YOU!!

 

[PHL]

Yes, you are right that the airline is not competitive on customer service. But your OP was harping about seat pitch and F/A crew rest areas.

We've established that the seat pitch is irrelevant in terms of customer sat when every competitor's "hard" product is the same even though a lot of them don't have AVOD in coach. Given the choice of flying in a 31" pitch seat with AVOD and without for 12-14 hours, which would you pick?

And I don't see how F/A crew rest areas are part of a customer satisfaction score. So, if you want to start a new topic on how US ranks in customer sat surveys and the specific reasons why, then go for it.

 

[US Oringinal]

Yes, you are right that the airline is not competitive on customer service. But your OP was harping about seat pitch and F/A crew rest areas.

We've established that the seat pitch is irrelevant in terms of customer sat when every competitor's "hard" product is the same even though a lot of them don't have AVOD in coach. Given the choice of flying in a 31" pitch seat with AVOD and without for 12-14 hours, which would you pick?

And I don't see how F/A crew rest areas are part of a customer satisfaction score. So, if you want to start a new topic on how US ranks in customer sat surveys and the specific reasons why, then go for it.

Why the nastiness????

..all I did was point out a few things that Tempe is doing to the A330-200s that SOME people might care about. And if you don't think MINIMAL seat-pitch, and well-rested flight crews have ANYTHING to do with customer service......you should work in the Sandcastle too...

They will blow the launch of this aircraft and the TLV service just like they mess up everything else......that's all I'm saying. Doing it on "the cheap" isn't working...ask our passengers!!!!

 

[HPearlyretiree]

Air Asia just got their first A330's and the seat pitch will be 31 and they are calling it "comfortable"

Seems to be a standard these days.

 

[Black Magic]

People that fly to and from Asia are usually midget size too.

 

[PBI2FLL]

Let me ask you something....IS the average customer willing to PAY for more amenities such as a "full fare" PREMIUM ECONOMY PRODUCT? I think we all know what the answer is.

The average airline customer almost always wants a fare "ON THE CHEAP" but of course expects full amenities to go along with that.

Customer PERCEPTION is not always REALITY. Why should US Airways invest in a product that the average consumer is unwilling to pay for? Why would any company for that matter?