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The Call

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Sorry it took me awhile to respond, however it was because I had to do a little fact finding and prepare an appropriate response. This has been a most respectful debate and I didn't want to respond in a flip or sarcastic manner.


In the United States we have what can best be described as "Preferred Minorities".

African-Americans, Native Americans, Asians, Hispanics & Latinos, Veterans and those over 40 are the preferred minorities or "Protected Groups"

If one is a self declared Gay, Lesbian or Transgendered they become the ONLY group that can cut accross all of the "Preferred Minority" groups. This fact alone would then confer a "Super Minority" status upon one group.

At one point there was a move to give "Hillbilly's" preferred minority status as folks from Appalachia were economically disadvantaged and often undereducated. Now the PC phrase was "Persons of Appalachian Origin"

The real problem is that we have "Preferred Minorities" and we need to just treat people as equals period. NO ONE should get favorable treatment. We need a true Meritocracy here.

I'll add to this later I just got back from the ER, my 13 yr old stepson almost cut his finger off so I'm a little distracted.


In your previous post you seemed to imply that gays were loking for rights separate from others. Do you have any examples as I am not aware of any.

I agree that certain segment's of society seem to be more equal than others. Certain instances I agree with and others I do not. If we are going to actually make it equal for all then I guess we need to make it equal for all. Unfortunately in this country this will not happen for a while since there are still to many people who feel it is OK to deny a segment of society equal rights because they dislike something about said segment. Till that mind set

Hope you son is OK.
 
This is a nation of laws. Do you have any legal argument for denying a segment of society equal rights?

Where does homosexuality become an equal right?

I checked the Bill of Rights......

"Life,Liberty and the pursuit of homosexual rights shall not be infringed"....

Odd....I see no mention of this...obviously the framers weren't gay friendly. :up:
 
Gay rights has nothign to do with sex. Gay rights is about gays having the same rights as heteros. I know that the right likes to portray gays as wanting special rights because other wise they would be seen as the bigots they are. It has nothing to do with sex. Gay rights has to do with having the right to get married. Too be covered under the SAME laws as other married couples not a law that is "similar".

Cosworth. I am assume from your logic here then, that you you believe that such rights should be available to a brother and sister who want to marry... or even a son/father? Seeing that you don't see sex playing a role.

I am not trying to be facetious; but rather seeing if you hold to the idea that we should stay so far out of people's lives that we allow anyone the right to marry anyone as long as there is consent (and age of consent)?
 
Cosworth. I am assume from your logic here then, that you you believe that such rights should be available to a brother and sister who want to marry... or even a son/father? Seeing that you don't see sex playing a role.

I am not trying to be facetious; but rather seeing if you hold to the idea that we should stay so far out of people's lives that we allow anyone the right to marry anyone as long as there is consent (and age of consent)?


From a legal stand point I would argue yes. How ever AFIK, the argument against incest is a health argument not a moral one. Take one look at the Amish and you'll know what I mean. Also, perhaps I am reading more into it but your example seems to dell on the sex aspect and not the legal aspect. Were sex not an issue, why should a brother/sister not be married? We have already established that reproduction is not a requirement to get married so if sex is out of the equation, why not? I see no reason why a sister/brother would want to get married but what business is it of mine? The only legal argument I can see to 'prevent' sex between family members is that of genetic diversity and the increased chance of a birth defect. While I do not personally agree with the idea, I cannot think of a good legal argument against it aside from the genetics issue.

And before someone else brings it up, I see no reason why polygamy should not be legal either.

Secondly, I think you are missing my point. Marriageis not soly about sex or reproduction. I see it as a legal contract by two humans. What is the legal argument to isolate a segment of humans and say you may not do what other humans are allowed to do? What is the legal argument to support that?
 
Where does homosexuality become an equal right?

I checked the Bill of Rights......

"Life,Liberty and the pursuit of homosexual rights shall not be infringed"....

Odd....I see no mention of this...obviously the framers weren't gay friendly. :up:
Why do people always assume it's about 'special' rights; it's actually about EQUAL rights.

Part of the 14th amendment actually says:

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

If sometthing is available to one group of people, it can't be denied to other groups. And yes, homosexuals are free to marry someone of the opposite sexy, but how is that true "liberty" or "EQUAL protection"?
 
No problem, I'll just take that as a 'no'.

Depends what 'LAW' you are speaking of.
The laws of man or the laws of GOD.

Your analogy of law is something I will never agree with.
But to take your assumptions at face value, you do bring up interesting non secular concepts.
Since the objective would appear to devoid the laws of GOD into the laws of ‘people’ (or some resemblance of humanity) why define ‘marriage’ between two persons at all?

In your ‘concept’ incestual and polygamy marriages should be legal in the eyes of the laws of ‘man’.
So Mother can marry Son, Mother can Marry Daughter, Father can Marry both Son and Daughter, etc (so much for incest). I could waste my time all night citing the scenarios that would come out of such a hypothesis of incest and polygamy, but everyone here should understand the social impact of such foolish behavior.

Why ‘limit’ marriage between ‘people and or peoples? Why be so narrow minded as not to include PETA and inanimate objects? Animals and blow up dolls need loving too!

:down:

B) xUT
 
TheCall

Trip report… 😛

Multi-demonational, Multi-Racial, Multi-Generational 12 Hour Fast and Prayer! :up:

IMHO, it was fantastic!

I hugged and prayed with strangers as we were all single mined in our devotion and ‘LOVE’.

IMHO, the majority were Young adults, high school, university students and young professionals. Families and people whom love ‘GOD’!

‘US' sinners were there! Praying for forgiveness and repentance. Praying for ‘YOU’ and ‘I’ that still can not see the light!

The Myth

Take Care,
B) xUAL_TECH
 
Depends what 'LAW' you are speaking of.
The laws of man or the laws of GOD.

Your analogy of law is something I will never agree with.
But to take your assumptions at face value, you do bring up interesting non secular concepts.
Since the objective would appear to devoid the laws of GOD into the laws of ‘people’ (or some resemblance of humanity) why define ‘marriage’ between two persons at all?

In your ‘concept’ incestual and polygamy marriages should be legal in the eyes of the laws of ‘man’.
So Mother can marry Son, Mother can Marry Daughter, Father can Marry both Son and Daughter, etc (so much for incest). I could waste my time all night citing the scenarios that would come out of such a hypothesis of incest and polygamy, but everyone here should understand the social impact of such foolish behavior.

Why ‘limit’ marriage between ‘people and or peoples? Why be so narrow minded as not to include PETA and inanimate objects? Animals and blow up dolls need loving too!

:down:

B) xUT

I prefer to deal with US law and the USC as that is the law that governs the land we live in and the one that a US judge should use to determine guilt or innocence. Given my posts on here you really needed to ask that question? Given that every religion has different laws and different gods (or so it seems) gods law seems hardly relevant in a conversation about US law and the USC.

I would argue that to limit the concept of marriage/union to humans because humans are the only species that is sentient enough to understand the concept of such a union and as such, is the only species that can give an informed consent to partake in the union.

I think you are getting hung up on the term 'marriage'. What happens if my older sister were to loose her job. For what ever reason she is unable to find suitable employment. I happen o be single and work for hospital as a RN with great health insurance. Why should I not be able to join my sister legally (make up what ever term you want to define it) so as to provide her with health insurance?

As I argued earlier, try and convince religion to take back the term 'marriage' as a solely religious venture and force the state to only grant (insert new name here) licenses. You will fail because then as you said, marriage wil devolve into who knows what. A man will be allowed to marry his toaster or hamster. There will be no regulations as any religious institution will be allowed to marry anyone/thing they chose. Right now, the state/Fed is the only thing protecting what was once a religious endeavor and allowing religion define who may join in a legal contract and who may not. Take State protection away from religion and you are left with nothing. Unless of course you just mind your own business and don't worry about what others are doing with their private lives. We all know that won't happen because religion seems to always want to stick it's nose where it does not belong.

As far as polygamy is concerned, what business is it of yours? If three chicks are willing to share one guy or three guys want to share one woman, what the heck do I care? As long as there are not tax incentives beyond one person and as long as companies are not obligated to provide benifits to more than one person, why not? What right it is of the state to say no? It is not as if guys do not have more than one girlfriend or vice versa. What vested interest does the state have in dictating how I choose ro live my life. If I want to share my estate with the five women I am knocking nasties with then that is my choice.

And before you go all "I think it's immoral crap' on me I don' like it either. That is why I have one wife, have not cheated nor do I intend too. I don't like to share my stuff and neither does she. That is why I chose not too. Just because you and I chose not too does not mean someone else has to make the same choice.
 
Unless of course you just mind your own business and don't worry about what others are doing with their private lives. We all know that won't happen because religion seems to always want to stick it's nose where it does not belong.

And before you go all "I think it's immoral crap' on me I don' like it either. That is why I have one wife, have not cheated nor do I intend too. I don't like to share my stuff and neither does she. That is why I chose not too. Just because you and I chose not too does not mean someone else has to make the same choice.

No more than I do not like people pulling yard signs off of private property because they do not agree.
No more than I dislike teachers and junior/senior high school students standing on my street corner waving “VOTE NO on Prop 8â€￾ signs.
On one hand people tell me to keep out of their bedroom and on the other drag me into their personal decisions.
This knife cuts both ways but you will never see it.
 

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