IMisstheAladdinTrays
Veteran
What I fail to understand is how UA can offer all that service, when their competition is not, charge the same fairs and plan on making money. Can someone in the know please explain that to me!
The Clock is Ticking...
- Thread starter Stratocruiser
- Start date
I would guess that United is trying to seperate their product and make customers willing to pay extra for the extra amenities. I'm sure they hope to increase prices eventually and see if the customers will continue to fly for the extra 'creature comforts'. Maybe looking more for the Nordstrom shoppers vs the Walmarts. Both products are fine but the Nordstrom shopper expects more and expects to pay more for it. Will it work? I have no idea. It should never have happened in the first place. The legacy carriers dropped the bag when they priced themselves too high for such a weak product. To save money OUR passengers tried the LCC's (and were pleasantly surprised that it normally was a better, cleaner, more economical ride). United seems to be trying to reverse the trend and bring the frills back to flying but it just may be too little too late.
IMisstheAladdinTrays
Veteran
Dave
Advanced
- Apr 26, 2003
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Just curious, have you actually priced a business class fare from the N.Y. area to say, Los Angeles, that United charges, and compared it to the fare SWA charges?
If you had, you wouldn't be posing such a question.
IMisstheAladdinTrays
Veteran
Would be hard to do...WN does not offer biz class! i was speaking of all the extras in coach. Those fairs should be about equal. By the way, I fly for free!
Hate to be in poor form, but I can't let spacewaitress go unchecked. You cannot compare United and Southwest Record on safety. In my opinion, SWA pilots push the limits a little more than the United pilots do. When a SWA guppy pulls away from you on final you know he is going a little too fast for the approach as I have seen on several occasions. This is what happens when you do that to often:
5 March 2000; Southwest Airlines 737-300; Burbank, CA: The aircraft was on a scheduled flight Las Vegas to Burbank. On arrival, the aircraft overran the end of the runway after after landing, coming to rest on a street adjacent to the airport. None of the five crew members and 137 passengers were killed. Two passengers sustained serious injuries.
8 December 2005; Southwest Airlines 737-700; Chicago, IL: The aircraft was on a scheduled flight from Baltimore to Chicago's Midway Airport. After landing, the crew was unable to stop the aircraft on the runway, going off the runway, through the airport's barrier fence and onto a nearby street. At some point during this event, the nose wheel collapsed. The aircraft struck at least two vehicles, with the impact causing fatal injuries to a six year old boy who was a passenger in one of the vehicles. None of the five crew members or 95 passengers were seriously injured. This was the first serious accident involving the 737-700. Because this event did not cause a passenger fatality, it is not counted as a fatal event as defined by AirSafe.com.
But hey, the pax did save a couple of bucks.
5 March 2000; Southwest Airlines 737-300; Burbank, CA: The aircraft was on a scheduled flight Las Vegas to Burbank. On arrival, the aircraft overran the end of the runway after after landing, coming to rest on a street adjacent to the airport. None of the five crew members and 137 passengers were killed. Two passengers sustained serious injuries.
8 December 2005; Southwest Airlines 737-700; Chicago, IL: The aircraft was on a scheduled flight from Baltimore to Chicago's Midway Airport. After landing, the crew was unable to stop the aircraft on the runway, going off the runway, through the airport's barrier fence and onto a nearby street. At some point during this event, the nose wheel collapsed. The aircraft struck at least two vehicles, with the impact causing fatal injuries to a six year old boy who was a passenger in one of the vehicles. None of the five crew members or 95 passengers were seriously injured. This was the first serious accident involving the 737-700. Because this event did not cause a passenger fatality, it is not counted as a fatal event as defined by AirSafe.com.
But hey, the pax did save a couple of bucks.
Dave
Advanced
- Apr 26, 2003
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herkav8r i have to check you on this one-
SWA PILOTS PUSH THE LIMITS?? HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! LOOK AT YOUR PRECIOUS UA's HISTORY...some human error some mechanical...either way no room for error in this business...apples and oranges..or shall i say Sioux City and Burbanks?
8 December 1972; United Air Lines 737-200; Midway Airport, Chicago: The aircraft crashed during approach. Three of the six crew and 40 of the 55 passengers were killed.
28 December 1978; United Air Lines DC8; Portland, OR: The aircraft ran out of fuel while holding for landing and crashed landed. Of the 184 occupants, two crew members and eight passengers were killed.
24 February 1989; United Air Lines 747; near Hawaii: The forward cargo door blew out during climb and part of the fuselage and interior also blew out of the aircraft. Nine of the 336 passengers were killed.
19 July 1989; United Air Lines DC10; Sioux City, USA: While in cruise, engine two had an uncontained failure that led to a loss of all three hydraulic systems. The crew maneuvered the aircraft to a crash landing at the Sioux City airport using differential thrust on the two remaining engines to control the aircraft. One of the 11 crew members and 110 of the 285 passengers were killed.
26 December 1989; United Express (NPA) BAe Jetstream 31; Pasco, WA: A combination of an excessively steep and unstabilzied ILS approach, improper air traffic control commands, and aircraft icing caused the aircraft to stall and crash short of the runway during a night approach. Both crew members and all four passengers were killed.
3 March 1991; United Air Lines 737-200; Near Colorado Springs, CO: The aircraft departed from controlled flight and crashed during its approach. The NTSB has not yet determined the cause of this accident. All five crew members and 20 passengers were killed.
NTSB Accident Summary
NTSB Accident Report
7 January 1994; United Express (Atlantic Coast Airlines) Jetstream 41; Columbus, OH: The captain initiated the approach at high speed and crossed the final approach fix without first having the airplane properly configured for a stabilized ILS approach. The airplane stalled and crashed 1.3 miles (2.1 km) short of the runway. Two of the three crew members and three of the six passengers were killed.
19 November 1996; United Express (Great Lakes Aviation) Beech 1900; Quincy, IL: Just after landing, the Beech 1900 was struck by a twin engine Beech King Air that was departing on an intersecting runway. Both crew members and all 10 passengers on the Beech 1900 were killed as were the two occupants of the King Air. The airport did not have a control tower.
28 December 1997; United Air Lines 747-100; over Pacific Ocean near Japan: The aircraft encountered severe turbulence during cruise about two hours after departing Japan. One of the 346 passengers was killed. None of the 23 crew members were killed but three sustained serious injuries.
Please review the U.S. accident and incident record page and the U.S. fleet page for information about United Express and other regional airlines with a United Airlines affiliation.
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United 767 Loses Power in Both Engines near Hawaii
4 March 2001; United Air Lines 767; near Kona, HI: While early reports indicated that this 767 had a complete loss of power in both engines, the analysis of the flight data recorder by the NTSB does not support this conclusion. According to early FAA and media reports, United Flight 42 took off from Kahului on the Hawaiian island of Maui on a flight to Los Angeles and experienced a dual-engine shutdown about 70 miles (112 km) into the flight, followed by an in-flight restart and a diversion to the Kona airport. Later analysis of the flight data recorder by the NTSB showed that both engines had a reduction of power to below idle, but did not show any evidence of a complete loss of power in either engine. However, there was roughly a 30-second gap in the data during the time when the engines were operating at reduced power. The aircraft, registration number N666UA, has since been returned to service.
Other 767 aircraft have experienced dual engine shutdowns on at least five other occasions:
23 July 1983; Air Canada 767; near Gimli, Manitoba: The aircraft ran out of fuel after the crew miscalculated the weight of fuel on board. The aircraft made an emergency landing on an abandoned airfield. There were no serious injuries.
19 August 1983; United Air Lines 767-200; near Denver, CO: Fuel contamination led to a dual-engine shutdown at about 41,000 feet. The crew restarted the engines at about 15,000 feet.
31 March 1986; United Air Lines 767-200; San Francisco, CA: The engines were inadvertently deactivated the engines during climb at about 3,000 feet. The crew was able to restart the engines and returned to the departure airport.
30 June 1987; Delta Air Lines 767-200; Los Angeles, CA: The engines were inadvertently shut off during climb at about 2,000 feet. The crew was able to restart the engines at about 500 feet and continued to their original destination of Cincinnati.
SWA PILOTS PUSH THE LIMITS?? HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! LOOK AT YOUR PRECIOUS UA's HISTORY...some human error some mechanical...either way no room for error in this business...apples and oranges..or shall i say Sioux City and Burbanks?
8 December 1972; United Air Lines 737-200; Midway Airport, Chicago: The aircraft crashed during approach. Three of the six crew and 40 of the 55 passengers were killed.
28 December 1978; United Air Lines DC8; Portland, OR: The aircraft ran out of fuel while holding for landing and crashed landed. Of the 184 occupants, two crew members and eight passengers were killed.
24 February 1989; United Air Lines 747; near Hawaii: The forward cargo door blew out during climb and part of the fuselage and interior also blew out of the aircraft. Nine of the 336 passengers were killed.
19 July 1989; United Air Lines DC10; Sioux City, USA: While in cruise, engine two had an uncontained failure that led to a loss of all three hydraulic systems. The crew maneuvered the aircraft to a crash landing at the Sioux City airport using differential thrust on the two remaining engines to control the aircraft. One of the 11 crew members and 110 of the 285 passengers were killed.
26 December 1989; United Express (NPA) BAe Jetstream 31; Pasco, WA: A combination of an excessively steep and unstabilzied ILS approach, improper air traffic control commands, and aircraft icing caused the aircraft to stall and crash short of the runway during a night approach. Both crew members and all four passengers were killed.
3 March 1991; United Air Lines 737-200; Near Colorado Springs, CO: The aircraft departed from controlled flight and crashed during its approach. The NTSB has not yet determined the cause of this accident. All five crew members and 20 passengers were killed.
NTSB Accident Summary
NTSB Accident Report
7 January 1994; United Express (Atlantic Coast Airlines) Jetstream 41; Columbus, OH: The captain initiated the approach at high speed and crossed the final approach fix without first having the airplane properly configured for a stabilized ILS approach. The airplane stalled and crashed 1.3 miles (2.1 km) short of the runway. Two of the three crew members and three of the six passengers were killed.
19 November 1996; United Express (Great Lakes Aviation) Beech 1900; Quincy, IL: Just after landing, the Beech 1900 was struck by a twin engine Beech King Air that was departing on an intersecting runway. Both crew members and all 10 passengers on the Beech 1900 were killed as were the two occupants of the King Air. The airport did not have a control tower.
28 December 1997; United Air Lines 747-100; over Pacific Ocean near Japan: The aircraft encountered severe turbulence during cruise about two hours after departing Japan. One of the 346 passengers was killed. None of the 23 crew members were killed but three sustained serious injuries.
Please review the U.S. accident and incident record page and the U.S. fleet page for information about United Express and other regional airlines with a United Airlines affiliation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
United 767 Loses Power in Both Engines near Hawaii
4 March 2001; United Air Lines 767; near Kona, HI: While early reports indicated that this 767 had a complete loss of power in both engines, the analysis of the flight data recorder by the NTSB does not support this conclusion. According to early FAA and media reports, United Flight 42 took off from Kahului on the Hawaiian island of Maui on a flight to Los Angeles and experienced a dual-engine shutdown about 70 miles (112 km) into the flight, followed by an in-flight restart and a diversion to the Kona airport. Later analysis of the flight data recorder by the NTSB showed that both engines had a reduction of power to below idle, but did not show any evidence of a complete loss of power in either engine. However, there was roughly a 30-second gap in the data during the time when the engines were operating at reduced power. The aircraft, registration number N666UA, has since been returned to service.
Other 767 aircraft have experienced dual engine shutdowns on at least five other occasions:
23 July 1983; Air Canada 767; near Gimli, Manitoba: The aircraft ran out of fuel after the crew miscalculated the weight of fuel on board. The aircraft made an emergency landing on an abandoned airfield. There were no serious injuries.
19 August 1983; United Air Lines 767-200; near Denver, CO: Fuel contamination led to a dual-engine shutdown at about 41,000 feet. The crew restarted the engines at about 15,000 feet.
31 March 1986; United Air Lines 767-200; San Francisco, CA: The engines were inadvertently deactivated the engines during climb at about 3,000 feet. The crew was able to restart the engines and returned to the departure airport.
30 June 1987; Delta Air Lines 767-200; Los Angeles, CA: The engines were inadvertently shut off during climb at about 2,000 feet. The crew was able to restart the engines at about 500 feet and continued to their original destination of Cincinnati.
IMisstheAladdinTrays
Veteran
Too Much! I'm sure.
Yes you may say apples and oranges, Sioux City was an awesome performance by a crew to save lives under a disastrous mechanical failure - Burbank was an un-stabilized approach that resulted in a runway over-run. One was superb piloting and in my opinion the other was not.
JBG
