Topic: American''s Unfair Treatment of TWA Family
- Thread starter twaokc
- Start date
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
Anyone who disputes this post is an American Employee who is profiting from TWA jobs...
Well, I dispute just about every word of it, and I'm not an AA employee, nor am I profiting from TWA jobs.
Perhaps what you would rather have seen is that AA just turn their back on the deal and let the carrion of TWA be picked over by the masses in the bankruptcy court? If that were the case, the LAST thing that would have been picked by ANY carrier....would have been the employees.
I still think the former TWA employees, while they have a long way to go, should feel fortunate in that at least they are still pulling a paycheck. What is unfortunate, is that in the next round of corporate abandonment of employees, the TWA folks will most likely take the biggest hit.
People can write Don Carty all they like, it's a done deal. When corporate sees letters like this, purported to be from a TWA/LLC employee....telling AA's customers to fly the competition, it is clear to corporate that you neither appreciate, nor want your jobs and in the upcoming round of furloughs, AA is going to be more than happy to comply.
OhMyGawd....did I just say something supportive of corporate???
Well, I dispute just about every word of it, and I'm not an AA employee, nor am I profiting from TWA jobs.
Perhaps what you would rather have seen is that AA just turn their back on the deal and let the carrion of TWA be picked over by the masses in the bankruptcy court? If that were the case, the LAST thing that would have been picked by ANY carrier....would have been the employees.
I still think the former TWA employees, while they have a long way to go, should feel fortunate in that at least they are still pulling a paycheck. What is unfortunate, is that in the next round of corporate abandonment of employees, the TWA folks will most likely take the biggest hit.
People can write Don Carty all they like, it's a done deal. When corporate sees letters like this, purported to be from a TWA/LLC employee....telling AA's customers to fly the competition, it is clear to corporate that you neither appreciate, nor want your jobs and in the upcoming round of furloughs, AA is going to be more than happy to comply.
OhMyGawd....did I just say something supportive of corporate???
Don
Carty has about as much to do with this as the POPE.The real culprit is the unions and their constituants that have through contract manipulation disgarded ALL TWALLC people and thus alianated us to take on the brunt of the layoffs. This will be a long time in changing so if your unconfortable with this feeling some reality therapy may be in order.
Carty has about as much to do with this as the POPE.The real culprit is the unions and their constituants that have through contract manipulation disgarded ALL TWALLC people and thus alianated us to take on the brunt of the layoffs. This will be a long time in changing so if your unconfortable with this feeling some reality therapy may be in order.
I disagree, and I am not profiting from the TWA pilots, I have been cut back in the hours that I fly like everyone else.
We did not promise Congress anything, but had to mount a grass roots campaign to counter an end-run of the contract through a back door rider attached in the dead of night by Senator Bonds to a bill wholly unrelated to aviation or labor.
The TWA pilots have this strange notion of ownership of routes, airplanes and jobs and have forgotten that the real owners are in Centreport. While the pilot union at AA crafted a document to protect everyone's interest, with the severe cutbacks management is pursuing to amend their revenue model, they are eliminating a lot of pilot jobs.
Fair or not, those jobs are taken back from the last one on the property as the first to go. While 100% of the TWA pilots were not officially on the American property until April 10, 2001, 48% of that list is given greater than date of hire under American Airlines for seniority.
I'm sorry that you feel so victimized, and I'm sorry that any pilot has to forego the financial crisis of furlough, but the last ones to inflict that upon you are the pilots, no matter what you think of the integration.
Unless I put in a 3P/STL/767/CA and am awarded it once that part of the STL operation goes unrestricted, that I am able to stay in my four-part bid status, in no way profits at your expense.
Good day.
Contract manipulation? Forced to take the brunt of the layoffs. Hmmm I wonder if taking the brunt of the layoffs has anything to do with being the newest employees on the property. You all started with AA April 10, 2001. September 11, and the George Bush economic melt down have made business as we new it, no longer possible. Things are changing.
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The TWA pilots have this strange notion of ownership of routes, airplanes and jobs and have forgotten that the real owners are in Centreport. While the pilot union at AA crafted a document to protect everyone's interest, Good day.
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APA pilots do not subscribe to these "strange notions"?? (See "ASM" caps)
Protect "everyone's" interest?
[/quote]
The TWA pilots have this strange notion of ownership of routes, airplanes and jobs and have forgotten that the real owners are in Centreport. While the pilot union at AA crafted a document to protect everyone's interest, Good day.
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[/quote]
APA pilots do not subscribe to these "strange notions"?? (See "ASM" caps)
Protect "everyone's" interest?
The original post by twaokc:
Thank you for your concern for the family of TWA that took good care of you and your fellow business/leisure travelers.
TWA people had a vested interest in providing you the best service available. TWA went from 9th. (last) to 1st. in on time performance and awarded JD Power's recognition for short and long haul service.
The TWA family is suffering from predatory efforts from the employees of American. After promising congress that they would seek a fair integration of all TWA employees, they are taking our routes and jobs. Congress gave approval in an expeditious manner so AMR could profit from the TWA purchase. Now the employees are profiting at the expense of our livelihoods.
Please write to Don Carty CEO of American and tell him how you feel. Please get the word out.
Thank you
Anyone who disputes this post is an American Employee who is profiting from TWA
Thank you for your concern for the family of TWA that took good care of you and your fellow business/leisure travelers.
TWA people had a vested interest in providing you the best service available. TWA went from 9th. (last) to 1st. in on time performance and awarded JD Power's recognition for short and long haul service.
The TWA family is suffering from predatory efforts from the employees of American. After promising congress that they would seek a fair integration of all TWA employees, they are taking our routes and jobs. Congress gave approval in an expeditious manner so AMR could profit from the TWA purchase. Now the employees are profiting at the expense of our livelihoods.
Please write to Don Carty CEO of American and tell him how you feel. Please get the word out.
Thank you
Anyone who disputes this post is an American Employee who is profiting from TWA
Well don't blame all the unions. The sorry ^$$ TWU has half ^$$ language in the contract that left many doors open for interpretation. And interpretation it had indeed. It went to non-binding arbitration and there was no stapling. Instead if you are a TWA/LLC employee represented by the TWU, you carry THREE seniority dates depending where you are based. That's not a staple job, that's flexibility. I think the TWA guys and the IAM presented a good case and slam dunked the TWU. The TWU had a time period after the ruling to contest any of the decisions made even though it was non-binding. Did they? NO, they did not, something that the DUES paying membership requested for. Again you see who the TWU really works for. Not us the dues payers. IMHO I blame the company and the unions for this unwanted mess that we are all in right now. This will be forever a hot issue at the work place. If I have to work side by side with a ExTWA guy there will be no problem for me. We are both victims here. My opinion of course. [
]The ASM caps were in the '97 contract between APA and AMR to protect our interests so AMR would not grow Eagle while shrinking AA. Eagle was originally to be a feed operation to AA and on that basis, an agreement was made between APA and AMR to allow them to operate a feed operation outside of our Scope clause in '87.
AMR currently refuses to negotiate a new contract that could solve the flexibility they desire and instead has tried to end-run the RLA with legislation for baseball style arbitration, and has also skirted the ASM caps by setting up corporations with code-share agreements on fleets designed to look exactly like American Eagle called American Connection.
The original post has been deleted. I really hope that people aren't writing letters telling customers to fly someone else. Just to achieve there own selfish needs.
What could be put in a letter like that. Hi I am so and so. Dont fly AA because they bought TWA in a bankruptcy fire sale. Gave 2 DIP loans to keep us in the air through the BK procedings. The offered jobs to us, and huge pay raises. We didn;t get our occupational seniority. Because of that we are being treated as though we just started here with AA. We feel we should be given seniority over all there current employees so we can maintain our weekends off, premium shifts and start times. We need the oppertunity to make sure that AA lays off all those employees they hired off the street prior to us. Before they lay us off. So please dont fly AA until they protect all the newhire exTWA employees, at the expense of those hard working AAer's who help build AA, make what it is, and the reason you choose to fly it.
Thank you from the ex employees of bankrupt TWA.
Tharseo, thanks for the copy of the letter. I wonder where AA is hiding all these profits we got from the TWA purchase.
AAers are taking their routes and jobs. What a joke. What routes? What jobs? I guess there goal is to try to drive away business to continue the bleed on the company and see more and more people on the street. Try to get AA to fail. Then the ex TWA people will be able to stand tall, and say you should have given me my seniority I earned at TWA.
JFK Fleet Service
Veteran
Ahh well, you know what they say about opinions and A-holes....
WingNaPrayer
Veteran
We all got one....and they all stink? [:devil:]
FrugalFlyer
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 254
- 0
IMHO, before starting/continuing another endless debate about staple vs doh merger vs acquisition and related topics, all AMR employees, both 'original' AA and former TW, need to stop and consider this: you still have a job! Be thankful for whatever job you have. Sure, things 'may' have been better/different, but such is life, learn to deal with it, adapt and overcome life's challanges.
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On 8/20/2002 431 PM
Tharseo, thanks for the copy of the letter. I wonder where AA is hiding all these profits we got from the TWA purchase.
AAers are taking their routes and jobs. What a joke. What routes? What jobs? I guess there goal is to try to drive away business to continue the bleed on the company and see more and more people on the street. Try to get AA to fail. Then the ex TWA people will be able to stand tall, and say you should have given me my seniority I earned at TWA.
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You see Mikey you are so blinded by tunnelvision that you don't realize that TWA owned/leased planes, certain route authorities, slots, gates, equipment, and real estate, have monetary value. Regardless if profit is being made from these assets, the fact is AA gained something that they otherwise would not have had. We don't know if TWA would have ended in bankruptcy court again on its own. Sure the probability was extremely high, but the fact of the matter is AA intervened before bankruptcy was filed and forced TWA into bankruptcy prior to acquiring assets. Part of the asset purchase included the offering of jobs to the unionized employees.
Historically, when two unionized airline seniority lists were to integrated a standard was used. The two unions would sit down and hammer out some sort of integration agreement, and take any unresolved issues to arbitration. Then the lists were merged after a decision was rendered, typically. I know this is a gross simplification of the whole process. Throughout the many mergers/acquisitions in the airline industry seniority was respected in some degree by unionized groups regardless whether they were independent or AFL-CIO afiliated unions. Sometimes seniority was respected even when a group was not unionized.
The fact of the matter is your union never sat down with the TWA FA union to even try to negotiate a seniority integration of the two lists. Your union and AA told the TWA FA's this is the way it's going to be. Gee, so much for the Allegheny-Mohawk labor protection provisions that was a standard for unionized seniority integrations. Mikey, I know you feel what was offered to the TWA FA's was generous, i.e. full pay seniority, retirement credit, etc. Let's face it, integration of seniority lists are all about BIDDING SENIORITY!
The position that you and others from your ilk have so adamantly upheld throughout this process is ARROGANT, morally reprehensible, and goes against the priciples of trade unionism! The integration of the TWA and AA employees is an example of how NOT to do a seniority integration. Unionism, especially amongst airline workers, was all about "all for one, one for all" in the past, then the AA-TWA integration came along. What you and your organization have shown that it is all about me, me, me, let the rest be damned. You and your group have ably demonstrated, by swallowing the company kool-aid, that you will stop at nothing to protect your kozy little fortress, to try and keep it impermeable rather than show some respect for your fellow unionized brothers and sisters that are now dues paying members of that selfish organization that you belong to.
All your organization had to do was submit the whole matter to an arbitrator for determination. As you can see the TWA mechanics and rampers decision is far from what they wanted, but at the very least, it was heard by third party neutral.
Finally, because of the acquisition of TWA, AA is considered the largest airline in the world, whatever that means. I can only speak from a flight attendant perspective, your organization was once envied amongst FA groups in the industry, especially when your group orchestrated the '93 strike. For which I walked your picket line as show of solidarity for you and the AA FA's. Not anymore, the actions that your organization have displayed have been pathetic and despicable. I realize that my way too long diatribe won't mean s**t in the end, but at least I won't live with the guilt of putting senior, tenored employees, regardless of airline origin, on the streets. Remember the adage? What goes around comes around. [
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