BAG's We at TWA have in the recent past been through a similar acquisition ( as compaired relative to size) of OZARK Airlines. And guess what, all those good people where DOVETAILED in seniority we never had all the furver then as we see today.But of couse we did have some segregationist antagonists that tryed to stir up the masses but to no avail. The union solidarity was just too strong for this issue to fragment the ranks, we all must realize it is too our advantage to be of one mind on this issue and keep the peace.
Topic: American''s Unfair Treatment of TWA Family
- Thread starter twaokc
- Start date
>>As ugly as this thread is getting, might as well toss another log on the fire. In conjunction with AA's upcoming promise of another 7,000 jobs lost, with any luck it will take out enough TWA bottom listers that they won't be vocal enough to do anything at all.<<
Toss another LOG on the fire!?! Why don't ya get a couple of gallons of kerosene next time?
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Toss another LOG on the fire!?! Why don't ya get a couple of gallons of kerosene next time?
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If you are going to call yourself a union, then you follow the rules of unionism. If not, then you are just a club or a fraternity making up your own rules.
TOOLS,
Okay, maybe I am wrong about the exact numbers. My point is that if Carty, or any other CEO announced that they were buying another large bankrupt company, and most of the employees of the bankrupt carrier would now be going to the top of the seniority lists, there would be a riot.
MCIE is an old folks home. It doesn't matter why they can't afford to retire. It's a sad story, but it doesn't mean you should get to go ahead of original AAer's on the seniority list, but that's exactly what happened.
Okay, maybe I am wrong about the exact numbers. My point is that if Carty, or any other CEO announced that they were buying another large bankrupt company, and most of the employees of the bankrupt carrier would now be going to the top of the seniority lists, there would be a riot.
MCIE is an old folks home. It doesn't matter why they can't afford to retire. It's a sad story, but it doesn't mean you should get to go ahead of original AAer's on the seniority list, but that's exactly what happened.
As ugly as this thread is getting, might as well toss another log on the fire. In conjunction with AA's upcoming promise of another 7,000 jobs lost, with any luck it will take out enough TWA bottom listers that they won't be vocal enough to do anything at all.
I don't think AA wanted the warm bodies to begin with, I think they just took them in like Old Mother Hubbard as a last ditch effort to secure the nod of the Bankruptcy court.
TWA employees that came on board don't seem to understand one basic concept: their jobs belong to AA now, AA BOUGHT their jobs from TWA through a bankruptcy proceeding, and that after floating them millions to keep their planes in the air and the jobs in tact. Those jobs belong to AA and they can damn-well put anyone they want in them.
Unfair as that may sound, that's the American way (no pun intended) and I don't think there is a court in the land that's going to go against them on that issue, especially not after the unions stuck their hands in the pot and now everything is said and done.
Creating animosity among the customer base makes one very tragic thing possible...although a disgruntled few may go to court, they may sue AA, they may sue unions, whatever, but all they are guaranteeing by going after the customer base is that once the three ring circus in court is over, they'll end up with neither an airline to provide them with a job/paycheck, nor an entity with enough money to pay them a thin dime if they win.
I hardly think that a couple of disgruntled TWA folks in on this message board is even a miniscule representation of other TWA former employees who may think like them.
Even an old dog knows...when you bite the hand that feeds you....it will stop feeding you.
I don't think AA wanted the warm bodies to begin with, I think they just took them in like Old Mother Hubbard as a last ditch effort to secure the nod of the Bankruptcy court.
TWA employees that came on board don't seem to understand one basic concept: their jobs belong to AA now, AA BOUGHT their jobs from TWA through a bankruptcy proceeding, and that after floating them millions to keep their planes in the air and the jobs in tact. Those jobs belong to AA and they can damn-well put anyone they want in them.
Unfair as that may sound, that's the American way (no pun intended) and I don't think there is a court in the land that's going to go against them on that issue, especially not after the unions stuck their hands in the pot and now everything is said and done.
Creating animosity among the customer base makes one very tragic thing possible...although a disgruntled few may go to court, they may sue AA, they may sue unions, whatever, but all they are guaranteeing by going after the customer base is that once the three ring circus in court is over, they'll end up with neither an airline to provide them with a job/paycheck, nor an entity with enough money to pay them a thin dime if they win.
I hardly think that a couple of disgruntled TWA folks in on this message board is even a miniscule representation of other TWA former employees who may think like them.
Even an old dog knows...when you bite the hand that feeds you....it will stop feeding you.
WnP If you (as you have previouly stated) dont work for the airline where do YOU!! get off telling anyone who does how they should think or feel? Your always in every post that follows this topic.WHY??? Are you realy that in need of attention that you must inject your opinion into matters that do not concern you. Please cleanup your own back yard.
I rember a slogan of a past poster that read "perception is reality!" unfortunately it is true with this situation.
Ownership should be the key word here. When you purchase a house, you claim ownership, but you dont really own the house until you pay the house off. You share your ownership with the bank and your equity stake grows longevity of payments! As pilots of AA, we dont own a lot of things we claim literally, but, one of the things we own lock stock and barrel is our senority list. AMR purchased TWA, and unfortunately they purchased the employees also, unfortunately because it has caused so much heartache. AMR paid cash for your senority list, read paid in full, and guess what, they gave it to the APA. Since APA owns the pilots lists at AA, we have the right of (now) ownership to the TWA list and thus the ability to do what we will with that list.
Our list is not completely paid for because we are still basically paying for our list with our own pilots longevity, but we do have lots of equity, in the form of 12000 pilots. After the purchase we now have 14000 including the furloughees. (give or take) So you see although yo contribute to our equity stake, your longevity was paid for with $760+ million dollars of which you only increase our BOTTOM line. At least you have a number and at least you do have the ability to return to a flying job without question when the industry recovers! If you want to jump ship, go right ahead because there are many regional pilots that would love to be in your place.
Ownership should be the key word here. When you purchase a house, you claim ownership, but you dont really own the house until you pay the house off. You share your ownership with the bank and your equity stake grows longevity of payments! As pilots of AA, we dont own a lot of things we claim literally, but, one of the things we own lock stock and barrel is our senority list. AMR purchased TWA, and unfortunately they purchased the employees also, unfortunately because it has caused so much heartache. AMR paid cash for your senority list, read paid in full, and guess what, they gave it to the APA. Since APA owns the pilots lists at AA, we have the right of (now) ownership to the TWA list and thus the ability to do what we will with that list.
Our list is not completely paid for because we are still basically paying for our list with our own pilots longevity, but we do have lots of equity, in the form of 12000 pilots. After the purchase we now have 14000 including the furloughees. (give or take) So you see although yo contribute to our equity stake, your longevity was paid for with $760+ million dollars of which you only increase our BOTTOM line. At least you have a number and at least you do have the ability to return to a flying job without question when the industry recovers! If you want to jump ship, go right ahead because there are many regional pilots that would love to be in your place.
As a customer, I like to ride herd on the people I spend my money with. If you don't like it, find another job.
I am!
BillLumbergh
Veteran
Sorry if it sounded harsh. Being pro-employee, I seriously don't want to see anyone loose their job. In this instance, no one is going to find fault with a company that needs to make layoffs and decides to hand those out to the chronic bittchers & complainers!----------------
On 8/21/2002 213 PM
Dc10hound wrote:
Toss another LOG on the fire!?! Why don't ya get a couple of gallons of kerosene next time?
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No WingNA, you have it wrong. It is not the American way to slash jobs. It is the dirty american way. Just like Enron and Worldcom. No wonder the economy is still in the dumps with airlines continuing their slash and burn ways.
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] [] [] []Nah, they all do it, it's just that airlines, like Enron and Worldcom are newsworthy right now. Next month, it will be some other company. May I suggest you keep your eye on AOL-Time Warner?
TOOLS,
A TWAer at work told me that when TWA bought Ozark, it had made record profits that year. Is this true? We at AA view this a little different, more like you'd be on the street right now if AA hadn't bought you.
A TWAer at work told me that when TWA bought Ozark, it had made record profits that year. Is this true? We at AA view this a little different, more like you'd be on the street right now if AA hadn't bought you.
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