Transport Workers and Machinist Union to Jointly Represent Ground Workers at the "New" American Airl

[ChockJockey]

it's pragmatic thinking .... you should remember that in my mind this pension plan is doomed ..because we are "forced to share" our retirements , I might as well ensure that I come out ahead of this game ...

What's wrong with sharing?

 

[Kev3188]

I've been doing some thinking lately...

That never ends well with you...

 

[robbedagain]

That never ends well with you...

lol +1

 

[cltrat]

That never ends well with you...

snicker...lol that was funny there

 

[swamt]

Have you guys checked out the teamsters "rumor control" page?? Only read a couple and left as they are flat out lies. One states that the IAM and AMFA gave away all the work to outsourcing. This is false, it was in fact only the IAM prior to AMFA taking over. Matter fact, after AMFA tool over they were successful in nego better protections during the BK process. What have the teamsters done since they have taken over? Nothing, notta, zilch!!! They still have not come to a single contract after what, 4 years now. Talk about terrible representation.
Also take notice how they NEVER bring up the "rumors" and address such "rumors" about the fraudulently collected forged cards at AA. Hmmmm. Wonder why? Because they were caught red handed and have no answer for it. Imagine, if a union would go thru all this illegal action to get cards, what else they would do to get the mechanics at any carrier to sign cards, also think what they will and have done once they take over, just look at all the crimes they are still committing to this day in the media. All you hear and read about is teamster local officials either stealing monies or committing some kind of fraud or money laundering or fraudulently collecting forged cards at AA for representation. If this is the type of representation you guys want, then you can have them. But just remember, we all warned you guys, just like we warned the UAL guys and they are now regretting their choice to bring the teamsters in at UAL, now you guys may have to experience the same, Bye-bye pensions at US with the teamsters...

 

[roabilly]

The bottom line is the IAM pension will provide USA and AA employees to retire with security. What do you propose? Let me guess a 401k. At USA the MX has an $85 per year multiplier, pretty damn good. Fleet currently is about $80. Pretty damn good too. No past benefits were
cut under the plan. And, as for Fleet, the contribution is $1.05 per hour. Negotiate up, which will happen, and the multiplier will be at least in the $60 range to start. You act as if 401ks are immune to market volatility. Check any comparison between the IAM plan and a 401k. No comparison. Ask how many SWA get the 9.3% match, not even 25% do because they don't contribute the max. Also, how much money do you think you need to save to buy an annuity at age 62 that would provide you with $2500-$3000 a month for the rest of your life? Take a swipe at that one and I'll get back to you.

Also, get your facts straight; the IAM plan is over 103% funded, far from dying. Check out the adjustable benefits and the contribution rate tables. Even with going to one schedule it is better than any plan out there, including your beloved 401k.

I can tell you first hand-- that a vast majority of the younger Fleet Agents are not contributing to a 401k in sufficient amounts to actually supplement them in retirement! There is a good reason Corporate America lobbied in the 80's for the 401k plans to begin with-- They wanted these palns so they could dump all the responsibility of retirement planning, and the related investments onto employees who are unwilling, or are not financially able to participate!

These same Corporate Lobbyist knew damn good and well that a large percentage of average working-class citizens would not have the wherewithal, and/or financial savvy to manage these plans. The whole 401k scheme was designed to save big business money by allowing them to rid themselves of defined pension obligations.

401k plans are a corporate scam... the IAM pension is well funded, and it will certainly out perform the expectations of any arm-chair financial experts here in this forum!

Here is an excelent 401k Plan Wall Street Journal Assement for your reading pleasure...

Here is an exerpt from that article-- Just 8% of households approaching retirement have the $636,673 or more in their 401(k)s that would be needed to generate $39,465 a year!

 

[Tim Nelson]

I can tell you first hand-- that a vast majority of the younger Fleet Agents are not contributing to a 401k in sufficient amounts to actually supplement them in retirement! There is a good reason Corporate America lobbied in the 80's for the 401k plans to begin with-- They wanted these palns so they could dump all the responsibility of retirement planning, and the related investments onto employees who are unwilling, or are not financially able to participate!

These same Corporate Lobbyist knew damn good and well that a large percentage of average working-class citizens would not have the wherewithal, and/or financial savvy to manage these plans. The whole 401k scheme was designed to save big business money by allowing them to rid themselves of defined pension obligations.

401k plans are a corporate scam... the IAM pension is well funded, and it will certainly out perform the expectations of any arm-chair financial experts here in this forum!

Here is an excelent 401k Plan Wall Street Journal Assement for your reading pleasure...

Here is an exerpt from that article-- Just 8% of households approaching retirement have the $636,673 or more in their 401(k)s that would be needed to generate $39,465 a year!

The IAM is funded by slashing benefit schedules twice in the last ten years. The fact that 'young workers' don't contribute to their 401k is all the more reason why our negotiators should be getting a base company contribution in it so that workers can have a 3 prong approach which is the best balance, i.e., social security, defined pension, 401k. The best path is for the negotiating team to allow each member to choose where the company puts contributions in. I wouldn't want it all in on the IAM pension because getting stuck with a 3rd schedule adjustment would be no fun. Also, part timers get pricked by the IAM pension plan. The contributions are whacked further in the contract than full time, plus their benefit is about $20 bucks a month IF they are fully qualified. Just doesn't make any sense to put all eggs in the IAM basket considering our pension is, um, well, not so defined after the IAM dips its hands into it to 'keep it greeeeeennnnn". regards,

 

[roabilly]

The 401k plans have left a vast majority of baby boomers unable to retire-- Many will be forced to work well into their 70's!
This is not made-up, it's established fact...period! The 401k hoax was one of most financially damaging programs to ever be perpetuated onto the middle-class worker! The beneficiaries were the Financial Institutions... you know the ones I'm talking about... we just bailed them out with TARP... "Too Big to Fail!

Every single middle-class American just footed the bill to keep them in the business!!

 

[FWAAA]

Here is an excelent 401k Plan Wall Street Journal Assement for your reading pleasure...

Here is an exerpt from that article-- Just 8% of households approaching retirement have the $636,673 or more in their 401(k)s that would be needed to generate $39,465 a year!

That's an overly simplistic analysis.

Many households approaching retirement have some form of pension in addition to their 401k, like the vast majority of airline employees. Sure, in the past decade, most airline DB pensions were frozen or terminated (to be paid by the PBGC) but those households won't be depending solely on their 401k for retirement income. If you get 2/3 of the monthly pension you were expecting to get from the PBGC or your frozen airline pension, then you don't need as much in your 401k - you only need to replace that missing 1/3.

I agree that many households may come up short in retirement due to many factors, some within their control and many outside their control, but it's misleading for researchers to declare the defined contribution retirement scheme a failure based on such simplistic analysis as the stat you quoted.

As I've said before, the existence of a DB pension within the IAM is way down the list of important considerations in choosing your union.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The 401k plans have left a vast majority of baby boomers unable to retire-- Many will be forced to work well into their 70's!
This is not made-up, it's established fact...period! The 401k hoax was one of most financially damaging programs to ever be perpetuated onto the middle-class worker! The beneficiaries were the Financial Institutions... you know the ones I'm talking about... we just bailed them out with TARP... "Too Big to Fail!

Every single middle-class American just footed the bill to keep them in the business!!

most 401k folks have been netting 12%, 15%, 9%, 12% over the past 4 years. While union pensions are needing relief. Both have value but it is silly to put everything into one. I think the IAM said it best, best approach is 3 pronged, i.e., 401k, pension, and social security although I don't trust union pension or social security. Just being burnt with a 'guaranteed' future benefits schedule that got tossed by the IAM pension trustees to keep the plan 'green', isn't my sorta recipe moving forward to be "all in". At any rate, for those like you who want everything to go into an IAM pension, you should have a choice, especially since you are 'banking on it' as you indicated you are retiring. Thus, I can see why you are going to the mat for it. But, for younger folks who have 30 more years to go, they should be given a choice because, imo, they will get hosed, in the end. I don't believe the IAM pension will exist 30 years from now without serious cutbacks due to the slow death of unions and a ponzie scheme. That's what sucks for me and you, i.e., these new laws being proposed could whack mine or your union pension benefits as retirees. Although I'm still in my 40's, unions are dying and their pensions are becoming less valuable. It's not our fault but we don't have to pass it on to the younger generation and ask them to fund our pension in this scheme. Even companies are bailing out on these creations. United Airlines said "No way" would it dump 16,000 more into it. So, much to consider. regards,

 

[Socplat13]

most 401k folks have been netting 12%, 15%, 9%, 12% over the past 4 years. While union pensions are needing relief. Both have value but it is silly to put everything into one. I think the IAM said it best, best approach is 3 pronged, i.e., 401k, pension, and social security although I don't trust union pension or social security. Just being burnt with a 'guaranteed' future benefits schedule that got tossed by the IAM pension trustees to keep the plan 'green', isn't my sorta recipe moving forward to be "all in". At any rate, for those like you who want everything to go into an IAM pension, you should have a choice, especially since you are 'banking on it' as you indicated you are retiring. Thus, I can see why you are going to the mat for it. But, for younger folks who have 30 more years to go, they should be given a choice because, imo, they will get hosed, in the end. I don't believe the IAM pension will exist 30 years from now without serious cutbacks due to the slow death of unions and a ponzie scheme. That's what sucks for me and you, i.e., these new laws being proposed could whack mine or your union pension benefits as retirees. Although I'm still in my 40's, unions are dying and their pensions are becoming less valuable. It's not our fault but we don't have to pass it on to the younger generation and ask them to fund our pension in this scheme. Even companies are bailing out on these creations. United Airlines said "No way" would it dump 16,000 more into it. So, much to consider. regards,

401k is a vital component of a sound retirement strategy, but a sound defined-benefit plan is needed. It worked for decades after WWII, as the Roosevelt Administration, via the Wagner Act, promoted freedom of association, hence defined-benefit plans. I agree with your statement.

We need to focus on organizing the unorganized and the organized through true grassroots, worker-driven campaigns that allow the workers to dicate the terms, through union democracy, not union bosses. Too many times we see union leadership become out of touch with the rank-in-file, turning their backs on the collective wisdom of the membership. It's a chauvinism that needs to be rooted out of the labor movement.

True representation involves just that; representing the will of the rank-n-file. And, that can only be done through constant education and communication by the leadership, which itself is good politics.

But whatever, time to get off my soapbox. Sometimes I feel we cannibalize ourselves because we constantly argue but I guess, as union members who have a voice in determining the direction of our union, that's just part of the game. We'll come together when it matters most.

We may disagree about DB plans, but I know you are my brother and in the end--collectively--the membership will decide what is best for them--Peace.