Unionization

[Fly4Free]

Maybe it's my ignorance of what unions do, or my perception that they strike if they don't get what they want.. but why unionize? I can understand it if those working on planes or loading baggage unionize. Yeah, I just got this job at US Airways and right now I'm non-union. I am paid the lowest I've ever been paid, even as an intern I was paid more. Why am I with US Airways? Opportunity. Tired of unemployment. I have bills to pay.

Then I step back and realize, how on earth am I going to pay my increasing rent, utilities, car and insurance let alone pay for food, clothing, loans, etc?

I read in the EVT yesterday about workers at Sky Harbour getting a pay increase (new hires) and they were being paid more than some people who had been there for longer than them?

From what I understand, unions "negotiate" pay rates, them based on seniority in the airline. Can any unionized official tell me how they feel about being part of a union and your feelings about it?

 

[700UW]

In order for a union in the airline industry to strike it takes quite a long time as the Railway Labor Act has strict rules both labor and management must follow.

Contracts in the airline industry to not expire, they become amendable, meaning both parties have to remain status quo till a new agreement is reached or the NMB declares an impasse and imposes a 30 day cooling off period.

Unions protect the members and establish rules, wage rates, benefits, working conditions, grievance procedures and various other things that the company and the union has to abide by.

Back in 1992 when the pilots agreed to concessions the company unilaterally imposed on the non-union ramp and customer service employees massive concessions without any worker having a say.

They cut their pay, froze their pension, eliminated sick time, vacations, oji protection. They downgraded 40% of the full-time workers to part-time and raised their family insurance to over $300 a month. Cut their hours from 40 to as little as 15 and as high as 25 per week.

The outsourced mail, cargo, catering(at some locations) and express work, causing numerous layoffs. In CLT for example you had to have about 13 years with the company to keep full-time.

Myself as a utility person at the time only had over three years with the company, but I worked under a CBA so the company could not touch any of our pay, benefits and working conditions without sitting down with the union, negotiate and have the members ratify concessions.

So I had three years and was full-time in my job with a say and someone on the ramp who had 12 years was decimated.

Unions have pros and cons, but if you ever worked in the airline industry you would see why it is one of the highest industries that is unionized.

And New Hires in PHX on the ramp will not be making more then someone senior to them.

 

[REACC1]

In 1992 ramp still made more per hour with the pay cut than they currently do. I made more in '92 than I did last year.(unfortunatly above the wing) Yet, I was disappointed to see cargo contracted out.

 

[700UW]

Well what do you expect after two trips to bankruptcy and three rounds of concessions?

 

[REACC1]

Do you believe that fleet may have been unfairly consessioned, as compared to other groups? (simple question. Not a provocation)

 

[700UW]

Well I think the PHL members of the NC were fools, but everyone had a number to reach and everyone reached it.

The biggest concessions were pilots then mechanic and related, then FAs then CSA and Fleet.

So no I don't.

I believe the company had a vendetta against the mechanic and related over the airbus issue, so they went after maintenance harder then any other group, I know I was there.

 

[fanlube]

Well I think the PHL members of the NC were fools, but everyone had a number to reach and everyone reached it.

The biggest concessions were pilots then mechanic and related, then FAs then CSA and Fleet.

So no I don't.

I believe the company had a vendetta against the mechanic and related over the airbus issue, so they went after maintenance harder then any other group, I know I was there.

No they just knew Frank and the boys would roll over and play dead just like they did!! Remember the concession stand was closed, and as soon as the first airbus goes to ala will strike yeah right!! The company played the IAM like a grand piano! They went after them harder because they knew they would be easiest!

 

[PITbull]

I believe the company had a vendetta against the mechanic and related over the airbus issue, so they went after maintenance harder then any other group, I know I was there.

And I agree, I was there too.

 

[700UW]

fanlube,

Your fellow coward mechanics would not strike, Roach and all the GLRs and GCs traveled the system and your fellow mechanics did not care.

And I guess you don't understand the bankruptcy procedure, do you?

When the company filed the Section 1113 C motion, by law the IAM had to negotiate with the company. No agreement was reached as the company wanted to decimate the mechanic and related workforce.

The company gave a final offer when the contract was abrogated and the membership ratified it.

No one rolled over except the rank and file who ratified the final offer and failed to vote for a strike.

Don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[PITbull]

No they just knew Frank and the boys would roll over and play dead just like they did!! Remember the concession stand was closed, and as soon as the first airbus goes to ala will strike yeah right!! The company played the IAM like a grand piano! They went after them harder because they knew they would be easiest!

The IAM won the airbus issue in court. The Co. decided to go again into BK, and I sincerely believe it was the airbus issue along with the IAM and AFA pensions that were left. The company wanted to rid itself of these items and turn into an LCC, and they were willing to throw the creditors and the stock holders under the bus as collateral damage as well....so while they were in BK #2, extract another $1 billion from labor as an aside.

IMO, the IAM mechanics and related were the toughest for the company. They resisted the most and their legal was THE BEST in representing the mechanics in court. Specifically and including the argument regarding the airbus work...they were outstanding of all the rest...I was there too.

The pilots were the easiest...they had a suckup MEC, (outside the RC4 who showed enough courage for all of labor), and the worst legal performance I have ever witnessed in any hearing on any legal matter. Pilots paid them how much????? Should of saved the dues and went in with no legal representation with that performance. I believe the ALPA legal was only in court to witness and ensure that IAM and AFA got their pensions terminated by the judge, as ALPA MEC had already gift wrapped their pensions to the company during BK #1 with no judge involvement.

I was there, yet again...every single hearing; both bankruptcies.

...what an education, indeed.

 

[Fly4Free]

I see. I'll be honest, I am new to the industry, and have usually worked in Information Technology. IT is _BRUTAL_ and if you don't have 20 years of experience, certifications out the wazoo, etc, then you'll spend most of your time trying to find a job. I've spent 2 years trying to find a long-term job in Phoenix (IT) but finally decided to try US Airways. I heard they treat employees fairly, and the benefits were great. Plus opportunity to move up in the company.

So far, I enjoy my co-workers, the customers and the administration that runs the department. They are all very caring, and I just worry about why there is a need to unionize there. I understand it's US Airways (East) policies moving over to West (America West) but.. I don't know.. it just seems really perfect where I'm at. The only complaint, coming from an IT guy, is their old computer systems being utilized. At least new systems are being rolled out.

I haven't heard a thing about what this unionization will do for us, other than increase our pay to East's level. Which, at my pay, an increase would practically mean nothing since I'm used to being paid ~$20-22/hr in IT. I don't know if anyone in Reservations / Vacations / Etc makes close to that, but I'm not going to ask. As long as long term employment / benefits / etc are included, I'm happy with my pay.

 

[fanlube]

fanlube,

Your fellow coward mechanics would not strike, Roach and all the GLRs and GCs traveled the system and your fellow mechanics did not care.

And I guess you don't understand the bankruptcy procedure, do you?

When the company filed the Section 1113 C motion, by law the IAM had to negotiate with the company. No agreement was reached as the company wanted to decimate the mechanic and related workforce.

The company gave a final offer when the contract was abrogated and the membership ratified it.

No one rolled over except the rank and file who ratified the final offer and failed to vote for a strike.

Don't let the facts get in your way.

Oh I understand the BK process just fine however I dont think a certain local lodge President did, he was the one making those foolish statements! And he also wished he could of voted no! So with that statement there he was rolling right with the members!

 

[Awa Contract]

right - no one rolled over?? Is that why the IAM voted the same thing till they got the results they wanted?

 

[Tim Nelson]

In order for a union in the airline industry to strike it takes quite a long time as the Railway Labor Act has strict rules both labor and management must follow.

Contracts in the airline industry to not expire, they become amendable, meaning both parties have to remain status quo till a new agreement is reached or the NMB declares an impasse and imposes a 30 day cooling off period.

Unions protect the members and establish rules, wage rates, benefits, working conditions, grievance procedures and various other things that the company and the union has to abide by.

Back in 1992 when the pilots agreed to concessions the company unilaterally imposed on the non-union ramp and customer service employees massive concessions without any worker having a say.

They cut their pay, froze their pension, eliminated sick time, vacations, oji protection. They downgraded 40% of the full-time workers to part-time and raised their family insurance to over $300 a month. Cut their hours from 40 to as little as 15 and as high as 25 per week.

The outsourced mail, cargo, catering(at some locations) and express work, causing numerous layoffs. In CLT for example you had to have about 13 years with the company to keep full-time.

Myself as a utility person at the time only had over three years with the company, but I worked under a CBA so the company could not touch any of our pay, benefits and working conditions without sitting down with the union, negotiate and have the members ratify concessions.

So I had three years and was full-time in my job with a say and someone on the ramp who had 12 years was decimated.

Unions have pros and cons, but if you ever worked in the airline industry you would see why it is one of the highest industries that is unionized.

And New Hires in PHX on the ramp will not be making more then someone senior to them.

And with union, workers could only wish they had the benefits and wages of '92 all over again. Now, no seniority for laid off people, less priviliges, unpaid sick time, less pension, worst of worst.

Sorry 700 but look up at the scoreboard sometimes instead of just running your mouth on the field.

regards,

 

[700UW]

You know Tim your record is broken and yet you keep spewing the same old crap.

Don't let 9/11, The Gulf War, Sars and Skyrocketing Fuel Prices get in the way of your misinformation.

If you haven't checked your calendar lately this is 2006, not 1992 which was 14 years ago.

Don't let the fact that US Airways (twice), ATA, United, Northwest, Delta, Hawaiian, Aloha, and numerous other carriers have been in bankruptcy or failed since 9/11.

Don't let the fact the American, Continental, Delta, Northwest, Aloha, Hawaiian, United, US Airways, ATA and numerous legacy and other carriers have obtained concessions from their employees since 9/11 and skyrocketing fuel prices have played havoc on the airline business.

Don't let the fact that ALPA, AFA, CWA, IAM, IBT, PFAA, APA, APFA, TWU and every other union in the airline business has been faced with either taking concessions to try and preserve as many jobs, wages, benefits, working conditions and every other thing as intact as possible in order to ensure their members and the airlines survival.

Don't let the fact that over 100,000 airline industry employees have been laid-off since 9/11.

Don't let the economy and what has happened in the world effect the same old garbage you post time after time after time.

Why don't you look at what has transpired in the industry since 9/11 and fuel prices before you keep blaming the unions for all the problems.