United Rumored To Be Looking At Buying Piedmont

[OldpropGuy]

This may just be another silly rumor, but I heard from two different sources that United is interested in buying PDT. Seems that with ACA pulling out, UAL is thinking about owning its own wholly-owned regional, to replace the lost feed. Ownership would provide total control, and avoid another disaster such as the ACA rebellion.

Anyone else heard anything about this? It's probably nothing. Besides, are they in the position to buy anything?

 

[Light Years]

UAL is not allowed to have a wholly owned as per the AFA contract- thats why they had to let go of Air Wisconsin. All F/As on UAL owned aircraft must be from the UA seniority list (although they are allowed foriegn nationals whereas I don't believe USAFA allows them). USAFA allows for there to be wholly owned regional airlines with seperate seniority lists whereas UAAFA does not.

During the merger, the three wholly owned US Airways carriers were to be sold off to Atlantic Coast Airlines, then an affiliate United Express carrier for that very reason.

If there was a merger its unclear what the status of Airways' MidAtlantic/Embraer division would be, as it could be seen as a violation of that scope clause, or possibly not because it does use (former) mainline flight attendants and is a "division".

 

[Fly]

I don't believe United has any foreign national flight attendants. I seem to remember there were some before 9/11 but they were the first to go.

 

[Busdrvr]

"UAL is not allowed to have a wholly owned as per the AFA contract- thats why they had to let go of Air Wisconsin. All F/As on UAL owned aircraft must be from the UA seniority list"

They certainly ARE allowed to own another airline, the rub is the AFA seniority list. I'm sure that would be open to "discussion". If you were a UAL F/A, would your want to be displced by a senior Pdt F/A?

 

[Bear96]

UAL is not allowed to have a wholly owned as per the AFA contract- thats why they had to let go of Air Wisconsin. All F/As on UAL owned aircraft must be from the UA seniority list (although they are allowed foriegn nationals whereas I don't believe USAFA allows them). USAFA allows for there to be wholly owned regional airlines with seperate seniority lists whereas UAAFA does not.

Just to clarify-- and this might have been what you meant-- the UA / AFA contract does nopt prohibit UAL from having a wholly-owned. It simply required that if there IS a UAL wholly-owned, that it be staffed from the same UAL AFA F/A seniority list as all other UAL flights.

 

[Bear96]

I don't believe United has any foreign national flight attendants. I seem to remember there were some before 9/11 but they were the first to go.

I am not sure how you are defining "foreign national," but there was one exception to all UAL flying being done by F/As on the AFA/UAL seniority list, and that was limited to a certain number of F/As based at BKK and SIN. Part of the agreement was that in the event of furloughs, those would be the first to go. So shortly after 9/11, the BKK and SIN domiciles were closed and those F/As were furloughed.

However there are still AFA domiciles in LHR, CDG, FRA, NRT, and HKG, and those people (both Americans and non-Americans) are all on the same seniority list as those of us based in the US.

TPE and SCL were also AFA domiciles but those have been closed during the Ch.11 process.

 

[Busdrvr]

The most important question: IS pdt AFA?

 

[Baloo]

I haven't heard that rumor yet about Piedmont.

Note to self: must go ask my husband if he has heard that one yet.

 

[BMIBABYgirl737]

Piedmont is AFA, remember they were ready to CHAOS around 9-11.

 

[Light Years]

Holy Moly...

So again, UA's AFA contract would not allow UAL to buy Piedmont and operate it with Piedmont flight attendants? I thought thats what I said.

Uniteds scope language prohibits "alter-ego" airlines at least owned, with non-UA FAs, whereas Airways allows for seemingly as many "regional" airlines staffed by whomever mgmt seems fit. Hence the delivery of jets to PSA to be staffed by new hires while 5000 mainline FAs are on furlough.

From what I understood, there was an exception to United's contract that there could be seperate foriegn national (its a contract term, I didnt make it up?) domiciles with flight attendants on seperate, fenced seniority lists. They could only be a certain percentage and had to be furloughed first. I only brought them up to show two interesting contrasts between two contracts for the same profession, in the same union.

US Airways, Allegheny Airlines, Piedmont Airlines, PSA Airlines, and MidAtlantic Airways (and I believe Potomac Air and Shuttle Inc when they were opertaing) are all AFA carriers.

So as for UAL buying Piedmont, why bother? Aside from the ACA fiasco and signing up Mesa, they seem to be doing fine with affiliates performing thier Express work. Why would they buy a regional carrier that consists of a bunch of turboprops and has no jet orders? Also, I dont know about other groups but Piedmont flight attendants are some of the highest paid regional flight attendants (more than thier furloughed mainline friends at MidAtlantic actually), why would UAL want to take on a higher cost airline if its indeed shopping for one? And again, unless the AFA changes thier contract, UA FAs have to staff these aircraft- most likely at mainline pay.

Possibly Piedagheny, if spun off, might provide feed for UA as a United Express affiliate but I dont see them purchasing it.



Hey Fly, my avatar is yours about 15 years earlier, doing what she SHOULD be doing... singing!

 

[usfliboi]

RUMORS RUMORS RUMORS SO sad most of this board is about rumors and insults

 

[USA320Pilot]

I have been told by company sources that Allegheny/Piedmont will not be sold, however, with that said if a premium offer was provided I could see this happen.

I believe as part of the pending mainline corporate combination, PSA would be a more logical choice and its CRJ-200 and possible CRJ-700 assets could be transferred from Pittsburgh to Dulles.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[AOG-N-IT]

I have been told by company sources that Allegheny/Piedmont will not be sold, however, with that said if a premium offer was provided I could see this happen.

I believe as part of the pending mainline corporate combination, PSA would be a more logical choice and its CRJ-200 and possible CRJ-700 assets could be transferred from Pittsburgh to Dulles.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

(1) I do not see anyone making " Premium Offers" for any of U's assets. They will be seeking bargains ..or will await a "Fire Sale".

(2) Selling PSA and transfering it's wares from PIT to IAD might be a sign of corporate combination?....but it also may be a sign of the end nearing as well?

U has been on a crusade to obtain RJ's via MAA , PSA and added lift from the Contract Carriers....saying good-bye to any "regional assets" in support of U Mainline operations is at best a devine contradiction in the expressed strategy we've been told about to date.

This again speaks of U's leadership not being trustworthy or focused on anything but dying off or selling out , If in fact thier is any degree of truth in this rumor?

The shear fact that USA320Pilots insider sources are even speaking on this subject draws concern. Look for another end around play to take place.

 

[Busdrvr]

"So again, UA's AFA contract would not allow UAL to buy Piedmont and operate it with Piedmont flight attendants? I thought thats what I said."

symantics, UAL's F/A "scope" as I understand it requires all flying by folks on the ual seniority list, therefor a MERGING OF THE LISTS. The problem for UAL would be the difficulty competing with a regional while paying mainline rates.

"And again, unless the AFA changes thier contract, UA FAs have to staff these aircraft- most likely at mainline pay."

Well they got every other work group to relax scope....

 

[Deleted by Moderator]

Well they got every other work group to relax scope....

sometimes it's nice to be in bankruptcy. This issue will not be dealt with for awhile at least.

The United f/a's have signed a petition (and presented it from what I heard) to remove themselves from AFA for exactly these reasons. I am not sure what is involved to do this but I hear they are very serious about getting out of AFA because they feel walked upon by AFA.