US Pilot Labor Thread 11/3-11/9

[Edward]

Here is the new thread. Do not make it about each other. Thanks.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Deleted...

Sincerely,

Leonidas LLC

Sorry Electric. I figured since Nos usually finds these I'd beat him to the punch. Consider it gone...

Tiger

 

[electricjet98]

Tiger,

The update from AOL is certainly good news, but I don't think we should be sharing info with our freinds from the east...does the BPR share their inside info with us? The info to be openly shared is available by clicking on "this flyer".

Best regards,

EJ

 

[BoeingBoy]

"The company pretends to be neutral in our dispute, yet will not deny that there is a financial incentive for them to continue down the path they are on because they claim that the furloughs, as presently planned result in a savings of $800,000 per month, as compared to an expense of $30 million if it were forced to furlough in accordance with the TA."

From what I've read here (this forum) it seems that there are only a few West pilots that were furloughed before the last of the "new hire" list is to be/were furloughed. If that's true, and given my opinion that once the "new hire" list is furloughed the company can furlough from either side as it pleases during this period of separate ops, I'd question the company's numbers.

All it would take to remedy the situation is pay protection for those West pilots until the last of the "new hire" list is furloughed - pay them to sit home. Even a dozen of the most junior West pilots (without looking up the payscale, say $6,000/month each) is $72,000/month that they're pay protected.

Of course, once those junior West pilots are actually furloughed there's no additional cost to the company. I'd be extremely surprised if a grievance would result in more than the same pay protection, applied retroactively.

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Does anybody know an approximate date when all the "new hire" pilots will be furloughed? I actually think that Jim has touched on a good point concerning company liability. That is, of course, unless the judge looks at the conflicting sections of the TA and just lets them off the hook. I could see it going either way. In essence, the company would have to pay a couple of months' extra furlough pay to the affected pilos from the West.

It's my experience that the company violates the contract regularly. The grievance process just tells them how much they need to pay for doing it, not that they can't continue to do it.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Tiger,

The update from AOL is certainly good news, but I don't think we should be sharing info with our freinds from the east...does the BPR share their inside info with us? The info to be openly shared is available by clicking on "this flyer".

Best regards,

EJ

Us westyz certainly do not want to show our hole cards, but this release is absolutely beautiful. There's nothng in there that will expose our overall strategy and I think EVERY Cactus pilot should read it.

I especially love this part:

"It appears more likely with every passing day that USAPA will go down in history as perhaps the largest blunder in labor history"

As many of us have always thought, the usapa experiment appears to be a sad case of bad science. Tiger - thanks for putting that post on here.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Us westyz certainly do not want to show our hole cards, but this release is absolutely beautiful. There's nothng in there that will expose our overall strategy and I think EVERY Cactus pilot should read it.

I especially love this part:

"It appears more likely with every passing day that USAPA will go down in history as perhaps the largest blunder in labor history"

As many of us have always thought, the usapa experiment appears to be a sad case of bad science. Tiger - thanks for putting that post on here.

Yea, a really impartial report. You guys work for Fox news or MSNBC?

 

[electricjet98]

My point is that if AOL wishes to release info to the "public", they will make a note of such; as they did with "the flyer". Releasing info from the AOL website the is not noted as public info will cause AOL to further reduce and screen info they publish on their website. I also didn't see anything being released that will harm our position. However if it's AOL's info, let them be the judge of whether or not it should be released!


As one of our "plaintiffs" so eloquently stated on the AWAPPA website:

Hey Mouth - just do not say anything stupid = revealing on this SITE. There have been enough past blunders on here that have slowed us down.

Pastings from AOL will be picked apart by some while potential strategies will be posted by others...we simply don't need to go down that road!

 

[88 B.T.D.]

As many of us have always thought, the usapa experiment appears to be a sad case of bad science. Tiger - thanks for putting that post on here.

Even if USAPA fails with DOH and the Nicolau list is included with no restrictions in the new contract that is passed in 2011 or so, it will still have been worth my vote on principle alone.
I am not currently working at US Airways but would consider returning as long as all captain bids East of Mississippi are East protected for 10-15 years. I'll just have to watch from the sidelines until then with no vote on the contract.

 

[cleardirect]

According to Heminway’s declaration the “new hiresâ€￾ could be on the property until April 2009. The number the company used in court was 140 “extraâ€￾ pilots.

The company complained that it would cost $800,000 per month to carry the extra pilots. The judge was clear that he was not going to force the company into that. But that number was large because in the court system if you ask for an injunction the company can ask for a bond to cover the cost. AOL would have to provide an $800,000. Probably an inflated number. The company also told the judge that if the Nicolau is implemented it will cost the company $30 million dollars to do. The judge did not buy that number.

There is a cost involved in carrying extra pilots. The judge knows that the company has the right to furlough. He also sees that it is not being done fairly or according to the intent of the T/A.

 

[electricjet98]

Everyone has to have a chuckle at USAPA's never ending effort to have it both ways. First they have the mantra of "DOH is the only fair way to merge" while also saying "We can't do DOH with everyone". Now they are trying to have it both ways while explaining "Motion to Dismiss" and the courts acceptance of allegations!


USAPA UPDATE
August 6, 2008


Item One: On August 6, 2008, USAPA filed the necessary documents to initiate an appeal in its litigation against AWAPPA and its co-defendants.

As we have previously communicated to the pilot group, the defendants filed a Motion to Dismiss the action based on the argument that the federal court did not have jurisdiction over the matter. Significantly, for the purposes of the defendants´ motion, the federal court actually assumed the truth of all factual allegations, including those paragraphs alleging that the defendants had engaged in criminal threats of physical retaliation, sending excrement in the mail, and criminal acts of electronic and telephonic sabotage. Nevertheless, on technical grounds, the federal court found that it did not have jurisdiction over the sole federal cause of action under the civil RICO statute. The court dismissed the state causes of action without prejudice and granted USAPA leave to file these causes of action in state court.



SENIORITY TODAY – THE FOUNDATION AND THE HOUSE
A Message to the Pilots From The USAPA OfficersNovember 3, 2008

It is notoriously difficult to win a motion to dismiss because, as a general rule, the court must accept all of the Plaintiffs’ allegations as if they were true (since the Plaintiff has not yet had the opportunity to obtain more evidence through the discovery process).



Or, to paraphrase one of our pilots: When you build with bull####, the building inspecter is not impressed!

 

[cactusboy53]

"The company pretends to be neutral in our dispute, yet will not deny that there is a financial incentive for them to continue down the path they are on because they claim that the furloughs, as presently planned result in a savings of $800,000 per month, as compared to an expense of $30 million if it were forced to furlough in accordance with the TA."

From what I've read here (this forum) it seems that there are only a few West pilots that were furloughed before the last of the "new hire" list is to be/were furloughed. If that's true, and given my opinion that once the "new hire" list is furloughed the company can furlough from either side as it pleases during this period of separate ops, I'd question the company's numbers.

All it would take to remedy the situation is pay protection for those West pilots until the last of the "new hire" list is furloughed - pay them to sit home. Even a dozen of the most junior West pilots (without looking up the payscale, say $6,000/month each) is $72,000/month that they're pay protected.

Of course, once those junior West pilots are actually furloughed there's no additional cost to the company. I'd be extremely surprised if a grievance would result in more than the same pay protection, applied retroactively.

Jim

Jim;
Try 44-45 AWA pilots from October 1st, and another 50+ on November 1st. Yes, that's right. 95+ former AWA pilots on the street while there are still third list pilots still earning a wage. If I am incorrect about third list pilots being continually employed, then my apologies. It is a pity that AWA pilots have to take the company and our "union" to court to follow the TA.....and that is even under the tenant of "date of hire". A truly sad time.

We'll see what the judge has to say.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Everyone has to have a chuckle at USAPA's never ending effort to have it both ways. First they have the mantra of "DOH is the only fair way to merge" while also saying "We can't do DOH with everyone". Now they are trying to have it both ways while explaining "Motion to Dismiss" and the courts acceptance of allegations!

Those two updates certainly illustrate what kind of entity we are dealing with...

 

[nostradamus]

I prefer spinner bait, not a live worm.

 

[electricjet98]

I prefer spinner bait, not a live worm.

Hmmm. Suckers, like catfish, usually like something smelly that others find obnoxious. Kinda like the USAPA updates! 🙄