US Pilot Labor Thread 11/3-11/9

[fodase]

I thought we merged more than 3 years, so I guess that "new" law won't pertain to us.

Yep and the seniority list was accepted by management before usapa came along.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Looks like the AWAPPA site has gone down. You wouldn't reckon there's been some hackin' goinn' on, would'ya?

Guess us westyz will have to use usapawatch.com as our "friendly entertainment" source for a while. Does usapa itself have a "friendly entertainment" source available?

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Yep and the seniority list was accepted by management before usapa came along.

ALPA was the bargaining agent at that time and that was their "bargaining position". USAPA has now handed them a seniority section with a DOH list containing conditions and restrictions and the company accepted that proposal as well. They have yet to complete a integrated contract that would contain a single seniority list but who is the bargaining agent at present and who will the company be dealing with?

 

[trunion]

Yep and the seniority list was accepted by management before usapa came along.

Here we go again... Same old statement over and over... and your point is?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Do none of you east guys read the news or keep up on the industry. Has USAPA controlled your world so completely that you are only mushrooms?

A new law was passed within the year. Any mergers not same union to same union use A/M.

That means arbitration.

Maybe you think that USAPA has set the precedent that the larger majority will simply negotiate the new seniority list with management disregarding the minority from now on.

Careful what you wish for.

Yes...I know....I meant same union mergers....like the one we had. And as far as different union mergers, I'll take A/M over a Nic type arbitration any day...like the one we may see with UAL.

 

[cleardirect]

Yes...I know....I meant same union mergers....like the one we had. And as far as different union mergers, I'll take A/M over a Nic type arbitration any day...like the one we may see with UAL.

The same union merger like the one we had? Did ALPA change their merger policy lately? NWA/DAL just completed their merger. It was arbitration. Unless ALPA changes their merger policy to “majority rulesâ€￾ it will continue to be arbitration.

What is the difference between A/M arbitration and “Nic typeâ€￾ arbitration?

 

[fodase]

ALPA was the bargaining agent at that time and that was their "bargaining position". USAPA has now handed them a seniority section with a DOH list containing conditions and restrictions and the company accepted that proposal as well. They have yet to complete a integrated contract that would contain a single seniority list but who is the bargaining agent at present and who will the company be dealing with?

Really? I can show you a signed document of the company accepting the Nic. as the list, can you show me where the company has accepted the usapa list?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Do none of you west guys read the news or keep up on the industry? Has AWAPPA and AOL controlled your world so completely that you are only mushrooms?

Read up on A/M provisions and precedent. Learn about its strong bias toward DOH or LOS merger methodology. In fact, without explicitly saying so - in practice, A/M equate LOS with fair and equitable.

 

[exB717Flyer]

In fact, without explicitly saying so - in practice, A/M equate LOS with fair and equitable.

Are you confused or in denial? Which part of Binding Arbitration equals "LOS with fair and equitable"? You know what, nevermind. You'll understand better when the next merger occurs that follows the new law.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Are you confused or in denial? Which part of Binding Arbitration equals "LOS with fair and equitable"? You know what, nevermind. You'll understand better when the next merger occurs that follows the new law.

Do you even know how the original Allegheny/Mohawk merger went? You know, the merger which formed the basis for the subsequent law or provision which bears the same name.

Yes, I am confused, by your ignorance.

 

[BoeingBoy]

They base their enthusiasm for A-M LPP's on a relative handful of cases where non-pilot employee groups were integrated, ignoring the fact that non-pilot employees are vastly more dependent on DOH/LOS than seniority when it comes to pay and some benefits.

No one has yet pointed to a single case of the A-M LPPs resulting in a DOH/LOS integration of pilot groups since deregulation.

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

They base their enthusiasm for A-M LPP's on a relative handful of cases where non-pilot employee groups were integrated, ignoring the fact that non-pilot employees are vastly more dependent on DOH/LOS than seniority when it comes to pay and some benefits.

No one has yet pointed to a single case of the A-M LPPs resulting in a DOH/LOS integration of pilot groups since deregulation.

Jim

That's wrong. It was cited by the arbitrator in both the PSA and Piedmont/UsAir mergers as a basis for LOS integration. It was also, until taken out of the process in the early 90's, a part of the ALPA merger language.

I guess you can see which groups have the hardest times merging. The pilots, of course. The one group you cite as not using DOH/LOS as the basis for their mergers. Pretty telling, I'd say.

 

[Piedmont1984]

They base their enthusiasm for A-M LPP's on a relative handful of cases where non-pilot employee groups were integrated, ignoring the fact that non-pilot employees are vastly more dependent on DOH/LOS than seniority when it comes to pay and some benefits.

No one has yet pointed to a single case of the A-M LPPs resulting in a DOH/LOS integration of pilot groups since deregulation.

Jim

That is because ALPA, over a period of years, diverged from Allegheny/Mohawk principles. The original A/M merger was essentially DOH. The new law, enacted last December, reinforces those original provisions when two different unions merge.

 

[nostradamus]

On a recent update to the america west pilots, a quote by their leaders.

“No matter what the disposition of this phase of our litigation strategy becomes, we will press ahead. We do not seek the destruction of USAPA itself, for it is currently our collective bargaining agentâ€￾

Yet you are on video tape in your can’t take the heat series saying you will never recognize USAPA as your bargaining agent and will never join. The meetings with the Ceo of Us Airways and america west pilots on tape, your group was telling him USAPA is not your bargaining agent.

Your pilot leader was quoted as saying the following before USAPA was voted in;

“Although the election is far from over, there are plans in place to destroy USAPA should they prevail as our bargaining agent. We’ve already announced the formation of the America West Airlines Pilots Protective Association (AWAPPA), and the website is up and running at www.awappa.org. In addition, you should have started receiving email communications from AWAPPA that detail, in part, the plans to ensure USAPA failsâ€￾



So now you consider USAPA as your bargaining agent, when you think a judge is looking over your shoulder. The america west pilots refuse to pay dues, but consider USAPA as their union.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I guess you can see which groups have the hardest times merging. The pilots, of course. The one group you cite as not using DOH/LOS as the basis for their mergers. Pretty telling, I'd say.

Nuf said.