US Pilot labor thread 12/2-12/8

[des nudo]

So what time is it in Perth there mate?

Or are you at your computer in Cranberry PA, just pretending.

The only Aussie I knew at East retired about 4 years ago. And he rarely said "mate".

Funny.

1) I never said I was in Perth now, did I mate?

2) Where the %(^^ is Cranberry, PA?

3) Who cares who you know down here?

4) Why don't you PM the mods if you have a problem with me?

(what a yanker...)

 

[nostradamus]

Eye is a former east pilot with an axe to grind.

He is not the only poster that fits you assessment.

 

[ableoneable]

Thanks for at least being honest, mate.

It's slang down here for "head games"...

There big at it in Perth.

cheers

You certainly implied that you were, mate.

 

[des nudo]

I'm still holding my very breath for Jim to adequately respond to his losing argument for the west...

Or, in lieu of that, any proper response that has some factual merit in this discussion..aside from 924PS thinking I'm in "toiletbowl, PA" or whatever the %&%% he is suggesting...

What? Nobody want to discuss facts anymore?

right.....

For mr. Able:

I assume you live in PHX...(based on you active posting)..so I say you live in ABQ....(if you've ever mentioned ABQ)

yeah...that follows...

???

I'd ask that some of you adhere to the rules of the forum...STAY ON TOPIC...( although I can surely understand the deflection)

 

[N924PS]

He is not the only poster that fits you assessment.

Just because a poster disagrees with the USAPA party line doesn't necessarily mean they have an axe to grind.

Until January 20th, this is still a democracy and dissenting opinions are still a good thing, even if you don't agree with Jim.

 

[ableoneable]

He is not the only poster that fits you assessment.

True enough, there are several posters sympathetic to the east who chronically misrepresent themselves. Maybe there is something in the water.

 

[nostradamus]

Until January 20th, this is still a democracy and dissenting opinions are still a good thing, even if you don't agree with Jim.

I did not mention any particular poster, you did.

This will still be a democracy after January 20th and I will disagree with and at the same time support the leader of this great country.

 

[des nudo]

Well, a few pints later...and no Jim...how will I ever sleep?

The fact is that the west has "evolved their defense" so much that it is incongruous with the facts anymore. This is to be expected if your intent is to litigate, but your case keeps evolving...( a sign of litigious weakness)

whatever,


Jim, YOU get back to me (on topic) when YOU have something.

 

[ableoneable]

I'm still holding my very breath for Jim to adequately respond to his losing argument for the west...

Or, in lieu of that, any proper response that has some factual merit in this discussion..aside from 924PS thinking I'm in "toiletbowl, PA" or whatever the %&%% he is suggesting...

What? Nobody want to discuss facts anymore?

right.....

For mr. Able:

I assume you live in PHX...(based on you active posting)..so I say you live in ABQ....(if you've ever mentioned A

yeah...that follows...

???

Let's examine your "facts."

Interesting that some west pilots are expecting the moon from USAPA even while they are not members...and they are even circuitously arguing that they "couldn't become members" until USAPA amended it's CBL's...

Nice twist. No west pilot argued that they could not be approved as members until USAPA amended their CB&Ls. There was a process spelled out in the CB&Ls and USAPA disregarded this process and substituted an invalid process. When this was pointed out to them they then amended their CB&Ls to alter the membership approval process.

WRONG, and you all know it. All anyone had to do was earnestly apply, and step up as a rep for LAS or PHX..

Pilots did fill out the application without altering it and applied. Other's applied for the rep positions but because the rep applicants would not embrace USAPA's DOH dogma they were told they could not serve.

I've been quipped by some friends, your little miss Suzie loophole was used to AVOID being a member...now you say it PREVENTED you from being members....which is it, lads?...I guess you still want the marmy to play both ways...as long as it suits your case.

Almost in English but I will take a stab at this one but first you need to explain what the Suzie loophole is alleged to be.

Yes, mate, I read the CBL's....I also read that USAPA was seeking west pilots to join, and to get involved...the few that did got harassed and there are investigations to this day...right?

Actually, wrong.

I also know that members were accepted BEFORE the CBL's were changed....problem is, the west pilots were trying to squirm OUT of being members...(Miss Susie, for example)...

NOW, they say they were "prevented" from being members until the change...(impossible, based on Susie's case before AH and the arbitrator...)

You have read up on this, right mate?

lets revisit, in case you forgot some key parts:

Members were told that they were accepted but their memberships were not valid as USAPA had violated their own CB&Ls. After USAPA changed their CB&Ls the memberships became valid. The pilot you refer to as "Suzie" is not trying to "squirm" out of anything. Obviously you are basing all of your assertions on what you have heard on the street and you have not looked at a single source document.

Wrong, mate...you add your pure twist at the end...I know bloody well why they weren't accepted, and so do you...they had to agree to uphold the CBL's of DOH....thats it

And they couldn't...
ALPA would do the same thing.

Try again, mate.

Wrong again, ALPA never subjected their apprentice members to an ideological litmus test prior to granting full membership.

I also correctly point out the problem with the DFR case the west has...of course, you omit that detail.

You have correctly pointed out absolutely nothing. You are confused about the differences between union membership and a union's duty to fairly represent all workers employed under the CBA. They are separate issues and viewed as such by the courts, mate.

 

[ableoneable]

I did not mention any particular poster, you did.

This will still be a democracy after January 20th and I will disagree with and at the same time support the leader of this great country.

Nosto, I take it that you are not a member:

Confused

Republican

Airline

Pilots

 

[nostradamus]

THE WAR AGAINST USAPA

"Although the election is far from over, there are plans in place to destroy USAPA should they prevail as our bargaining agent. We’ve already announced the formation of the America West Airlines Pilots Protective Association (AWAPPA), and the website is up and running at www.awappa.org. In addition, you should have started receiving email communications from AWAPPA that detail, in part, the plans to ensure USAPA fails in its quest to disadvantage America West pilots. If you have not received these emails, please adjust your spam settings to allow emails from info@awappa.org and/or send an email to that address.

The plan entails a comprehensive legal strategy to be executed by Bredhoff and Kaiser PLLC (the same firm that represented us during the merger), as well as a political strategy to be executed by all 1,800 of us."


Fraternally,

Captain John McIlvenna
AWA MEC Chairman

Nostradamus quote March 20, 2008

""Strategy failure. If the vote goes alpa's way, they will be the first to jump in and say the majority has spoken, so honor it. They should have waited till the results to make this public.

If the vote goes USAPA, their premeditated intentions to "destroy" will haunt them in any defense of not paying dues or cooperating.

Emotion is leading their actions.""

 

[des nudo]

I'll not copy your 3 hour homework assignment....so I'll wing it.

The "Susie" case is a killer for the claim of "exclusionism"

The facts to be argued can be these: the few west pilots who have braved the torments of the majority of west pilots upon their joining the union have attempted to pursue union business...but they are being harassed by west anti-unionists...

The few volunteers from the west have been attacked by west defectionists...

The west "strategy" has evolved over the last year to include the "abandonment" issue...to the "ignorance of west issues" mentality....

At some point, the lawyer will draw a line in the sand on what the actual case might be....

Oh, and for the "USAPA didn't ask me what I thought before they became my legally voted in union"...group...still waiting for that ALPA form whereby they asked you before becoming your union back then, too....

Until then,

pop the popcorn

 

[ableoneable]

I'll not copy your 3 hour homework assignment....so I'll wing it.

Translation: I have nothing of substance to offer so I will do a drive by and make up a few things and present them as "facts."

The "Susie" case is a killer for the claim of "exclusionism"

The facts to be argued can be these: the few west pilots who have braved the torments of the majority of west pilots upon their joining the union have attempted to pursue union business...but they are being harassed by west anti-unionists...

Please provide some proof here as this is the first that I have heard of this.

The few volunteers from the west have been attacked by west defectionists...

Again, please provide some examples, or even one. BTW "defectionists" how many words a day do you make up?

The west "strategy" has evolved over the last year to include the "abandonment" issue...to the "ignorance of west issues" mentality....

No change in strategy.

At some point, the lswyer will draw a line in the sand on what the actual case might be....

Until then,

pop the popcorn

The case is clear as is the Judge's opinion of USAPA's legal argument.

"Like many other cases USAPA cites on fair representation, Rakestraw will not bear the weight USAPA places upon it."

-- Judge Wake in his 20 November order.--

 

[des nudo]

I rest my case...all you do is quote me and add a defacto remark.


I certainly hope the west lawyer gets more for you before he takes your money AND your career.

For the last 90 minutes, NOBODY has adequately addressed ANY remarks about his issue...it has shifted to "where are you? des nudo...nobody "I know" in Perth speaks this way...


No wonder you guys will surely lose....you crater under real scrutiny, but you "flex for all to see"

Happy trails

 

[BoeingBoy]

Hope I didn't cost you any sleep, des...

You've "proven" nothing, other than the obvious - some that would have great heartburn if ALPA violated it's rules accept USAPA's doing it as just a "workaround".

Jim