US pilot labor thread 6/28-7/4

[nostradamus]

The next time you come across dictator Bradford or any of the other self appointed “leadersâ€￾ ask them what the status of the Nicolau award is. Ask them why they say that they are negotiating seniority instead of the Nicolau has gone away. Listen to Parkers last crew news from CTL. He says that the Nicolau is still in place.

america west pilots constantly threatened that if their pilots were furloughed it would be the mother of all law suits.

Where the beef?

 

[checksix]

Maybe you misunderstand. Listen to Parkers last crew news from CTL. He says that the Nicolau is still in place.

I think you misunderstand, I suggest you listen to the most recent crew news that was done in PHX. Senior management is pretty much stepping aside on this issue and letting USAPA run the union show without outside interference.

 

[checksix]

america west pilots constantly threatened that if their pilots were furloughed it would be the mother of all law suits.

Where the beef?

That seems to be their modus operandi; pound the chest, make some idle threats and if they get really mad they'll mail you some poop.

 

[checksix]

Then america west pilots crossed Australian pilots picket line for Sir Peter, Integrity matters.

The irony of these west pilots using the term "scab." ..........amazing.

 

[nostradamus]

"The net effect is that AWA pilots, who brought flying jobs to the merger and have been in continuous employment since as early as May 2004, will be furloughed while probationary new hires will keep their jobs at the East operation."


awa pilots who brought flying jobs that are no longer there want to take east jobs. This is because they had west jobs and east had east jobs, but they now want east jobs because they used to have west jobs. Makes perfect sense to them.



The army of leonidas, click here

 

[nostradamus]

Rough time line, us airways, america west combo

March 2004, f/o alpa rep for america west hired.

May 2005, us airways and america west announce combo

May 2007, arbitrator puts f/o rep for america west seniority over 20 year usairways pilots

Summer 2007, usairways alpa leader backs america west alpa leaders. Click here for the three stooges, right before they were forced to work for a living.

April 2008 alpa kicked out.

May 2008, former f/o rep sanctions illegal activity because he can no longer have his four years with the company, be senior to someone with 24 years seniority.

June 2008. Former alpa f/o rep given furlough letter, is indignant and cops an attitude.

Click here for video.

Poetic justice.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Maybe you misunderstand. Maybe you overestimate the power of the mighty USAPA. Parker is not bound by USAPA’s C&BL. He does not have to dispute it, he does not care what they do or don’t say. Parker is only concerned with what he will negotiate. Otherwise you could put in the C&BL that you will be the highest paid pilots in the industry. (How did that work out for you?)

I haven't misunderstood anything. "What he will negotiate" is the best contract for the company. We will negotiate the same for all the pilots. Somewhere in between lies the end result. Parker needs a contract to once and for all silence his detractors and merge the company. Merger mania is not over by a long shot. Doug will still have a problem defending his record, but he will finally be able to say he "got 'er done."

The next time you come across dictator Bradford or any of the other self appointed “leadersâ€￾ ask them what the status of the Nicolau award is. Ask them why they say that they are negotiating seniority instead of the Nicolau has gone away. Listen to Parkers last crew news from CTL. He says that the Nicolau is still in place.

I've seen all the crew news. Think other posters have answered the statement. However, I have run across the leadership. Nicolau is now a non-event. So I guess, as EastUS says, "we'll have to wait and see" what is negotiated. Then the membership will vote and thats that. If it passes, so be it. If not, then its back to negotiations again. In the meantime, Parker still has egg on his face in being unable to finish the merger. Completely negating any chance of investors and regulatory approval for any future endeavor. Thats just my opinion.

 

[cleardirect]

america west pilots constantly threatened that if their pilots were furloughed it would be the mother of all law suits.

Where the beef?

"The next time you come across dictator Bradford or any of the other self appointed “leadersâ€￾ ask them what the status of the Nicolau award is. Ask them why they say that they are negotiating seniority instead of the Nicolau has gone away. Listen to Parkers last crew news from CTL. He says that the Nicolau is still in place."

Did you use the correct quote. I said nothing about furloughs or law suit. Is it late and you are confused?

 

[nostradamus]

"The next time you come across dictator Bradford or any of the other self appointed “leadersâ€￾ ask them what the status of the Nicolau award is. Ask them why they say that they are negotiating seniority instead of the Nicolau has gone away. Listen to Parkers last crew news from CTL. He says that the Nicolau is still in place."

Did you use the correct quote. I said nothing about furloughs or law suit. Is it late and you are confused?

I did not say you did, I said america west pilots in general. Read, comprehend. A couple of posts later I did go on to say that america west pilots crossed a picket line, flew drugs and were no longer allowed to have a 4yr employee over a twenty year employee. Your comments about the less than stellar history of the pilots you are part of?

 

[Megasnoop]

america west pilots constantly threatened that if their pilots were furloughed it would be the mother of all law suits.

Where the beef?

Nostra (and Check6), a lot of bull, but not much beef coming out of the West. All I can say is let them sue. USAPA didn't cause the furloughs. Without West's help, we don't know what the intent is in the West contract to reduce furloughs. As I said before, we could probably come up with a plan to minimze furloughs, but USAPA can't do it alone.

I can't wait for that mother of all NIC DFR lawsuits. The West has one really big problem. It's there own attorney. Elixer, Luvn, clear and all the rest of the west hatchet men never read what Freund told the court in his reply to the East MEC Vs West MEC lawsuit. Freund said the company wasn't required to accept the NIC.

I may be a "newbie," but I've been lurking for 3 years. you Westies are so hung up on your anger over your NIC lottery ticket not being punched, your missing an opportunity to avoid furloughs.

Snoop

 

[EastUS]

"The net effect is that AWA pilots, who brought flying jobs to the merger and have been in continuous employment since as early as May 2004, will be furloughed while probationary new hires will keep their jobs at the East operation."


awa pilots who brought flying jobs that are no longer there want to take east jobs. This is because they had west jobs and east had east jobs, but they now want east jobs because they used to have west jobs. Makes perfect sense to them.



The army of leonidas, click here

I think I've finally found the ultimate in hypocrisy for those great fans of "relative" seniority = "The net effect is that AWA pilots, who brought flying jobs to the merger and have been in continuous employment since as early as May 2004, will be furloughed while probationary new hires will keep their jobs at the East operation." Well..Golly Mr/Ms Relativity!!...Isn't it true that the most junior people on each side are being furloughed?...Isn't it further true that they "Brought jobs" to the immediately pre-furlough enviornment? Seriously, for all you westie "relativists"...what possible argument can you advance for ANY inequity anywhere in this?...Oh!...I've got it now! = "..and have been in continuous employment since as early as May 2004,..." Ummm..WHY should their DOH/continuous employment matter to you, or any fans of Nic "thinking," in the slightest? Isn't it ALL, just entirely about "relative" position? Hey campers!..The lowest person not furloughed on the east was "relatively" the same as the lowest person escaping furlough out west. WHAT could POSSIBLY be more "relatively fair"?...and why should that be ANY "problem" for true Nic-"thinkers"? :blink: 🙄 Let me guess = "continuous employment since as early as May 2004"??? Laughable, in the extreme..Since when did you people give even a hair off a (deleted by moderator) about any such concepts?
Doesn't your even implying that "continuous employment" from a given point in time (ie: your furloghees' DOH) give the moral lie to your entirely BS Nic crap?....Or..should such factors only ever be considered when they specifically benefit the "It's ALL about MEEEE!" crowd out there?

I'm just ALL ears for any responsive, "relative", westie BS to this latest hypocrisy from the AWAPPERS. 🙄

 

[EastUS]

I should note that I obviously don't believe furloughs should ever be done on the basis of the west-east split, or EVER merely by way of "relative" positioning.

But again: Doesn't your directly implying that "continuous employment" from a given point in time has actual value, (ie: your furloghees' LOS/DOH) give the moral lie to your entirely BS Nic crap?....Or..should such factors only ever be considered when they specifically benefit the "It's ALL about MEEEE!" crowd out there? ""The net effect is that AWA pilots, who brought flying jobs to the merger and have been in continuous employment since as early as May 2004, will be furloughed while probationary new hires will keep their jobs at the East operation." Quite seriously; Given that your bunch clearly sees NO "problem" whatsoever with seeking to place "probationary new hires"/Save Daves/etc ahead of east pilots with not merely 4, but closer to 20 more years time..Sigh..I just can't see how any out there should be at all upset by the intended furloughs....."Who cares" if a "probationary new hire" takes someone with 4 years out of the picture?...It's all "relative" kiddies...remember?

Another little AWAPPER "gem" = "Of course, the pilots returning from furlough as a result of the merger on the East side will remain comfortably far from the flames." Again..What's the slightest problem with this?..within any warped "relative" perspective? Or...is it even remotely possible that LOS and, dare I even say...DOH?...actually should be meaningfull concerns?

The west's delusions know no bounds it seems. We even have an expressed fantasy of evidently unfair treatment via: " In this plan you will find that the company is choosing to reduce the AWA ranks by almost exactly ten percent, yet has decided to reduce the East list by less than four percent." Apparently..the operation can only be reduced in some manner that best suits the west's notions of what's "fair", and that should trump any real-world concerns. I won't even start on how absurd the prior claims of just how productive and profitiable the west was/is, versus the east...in light of the disparate percentages.

"USAPA president Bradford, on the Members Only section of the USAPA website, wasted no time in stating that, you may be certain that we will aggressively defend both those contractual rights that flow from the Working Agreements and those rights that flow from the Transition Agreement, as they may affect all US Airways pilots, both East and West." Yes..and it's evident that any/all attempts to do this will be met with compete disinterest and zero participation from the west. Sheer "genius" guys/gals....truly...uttterly "brilliant" on your parts out there.

Here's another interesting little bit of totally cross-threaded, AWAPPER "thought" = "I would expect USAPA and the company to offer a contract which encompasses Date-of-Hire, as the solution to the above mentioned dilemma that the AWA pilots now face..." Ummm..HOW is such a notion even remotely possible? Isn't it the universal "war" cry/whine out there that Nic will triumph?..isn't the company just all about your concerns for Nic? How can the mighty AWA-leos even offer the utterly blasphemous thought that any other contracted seniority could even be an "offer"? What am I missing here?

 

[tazz]

"The net effect is that AWA pilots, who brought flying jobs to the merger and have been in continuous employment since as early as May 2004, will be furloughed while probationary new hires will keep their jobs at the East operation."


awa pilots who brought flying jobs that are no longer there want to take east jobs. This is because they had west jobs and east had east jobs, but they now want east jobs because they used to have west jobs. Makes perfect sense to them.



Nostradamus, perhaps you are overlooking the fact that the NMB defined US Airways as one, despite the separate operations. Prior to that east was east and west was west. Now we are one. The NMB decision cleared the way for usapa. You can't have it both ways.

 

[tazz]

I think I've finally found the ultimate in hypocrisy for those great fans of "relative" seniority = "The net effect is that AWA pilots, who brought flying jobs to the merger and have been in continuous employment since as early as May 2004, will be furloughed while probationary new hires will keep their jobs at the East operation." Well..Golly Mr/Ms Relativity!!...Isn't it true that the most junior people on each side are being furloughed?...Isn't it further true that they "Brought jobs" to the immediately pre-furlough enviornment? Seriously, for all you westie "relativists"...what possible argument can you advance for ANY inequity anywhere in this?...Oh!...I've got it now! = "..and have been in continuous employment since as early as May 2004,..." Ummm..WHY should their DOH/continuous employment matter to you, or any fans of Nic "thinking," in the slightest? Isn't it ALL, just entirely about "relative" position? Hey campers!..The lowest person not furloughed on the east was "relatively" the same as the lowest person escaping furlough out west. WHAT could POSSIBLY be more "relatively fair"?...and why should that be ANY "problem" for true Nic-"thinkers"? :blink: 🙄 Let me guess = "continuous employment since as early as May 2004"??? Laughable, in the extreme..Since when did you people give even a hair off a (deleted by moderator) about any such concepts?
Doesn't your even implying that "continuous employment" from a given point in time (ie: your furloghees' DOH) give the moral lie to your entirely BS Nic crap?....Or..should such factors only ever be considered when they specifically benefit the "It's ALL about MEEEE!" crowd out there?

Eastus: back at you! Despite your lofty rhetoric you display the same hypocrisy. The 2004 DOH will go before the 2007 DOH and that appears ok with you. As long as it is a west pilot's DOH.

 

[sharktooth]

Nostradamus, perhaps you are overlooking the fact that the NMB defined US Airways as one, despite the separate operations. Prior to that east was east and west was west. Now we are one. The NMB decision cleared the way for usapa. You can't have it both ways.

Did the NMB specify which contract the pilots should use?