US pilot labor thread 6/28-7/4

[elixir]

Easy cowboy, you sure are getting emotional about this. Filling of vacancies is a different section than agency shop. I think if you look at your contract, you'll see how people are displaced, but that really has nothing to do with this argument.

I would doubt you'll see any improvement in 190 rates. There's more negotiating capital in spinning them off to Republic, etc. and mitigating some of the inevitable concessions that will come in trying to buy a DOH list.

I've said before, and I still think that if the company is faced with terminating 1800 pilots, they will use that as leverage to justify more or less time at the negotiating table. The west has danced with this management crowd for many years and knows their style. They don't do anything that doesn't benefit them directly.

Again, it will be fun to watch. 😀 😀

But...but...sir, how can that be...it was the WEST...who reeled that airplane in and scoped it...

are you saying it was all a lie after all?

Wow, I thought when ALPA went away, we were left with a sound of silence...

Guess not...

very convenient to scope the plane in, but make the East pay for it later...

hell, I'd call you company if I didn't know better...

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Sure is different than ALPA's M.O.: Thump your chest a while, then agree to something that benefits ALPA national or the ALPA MEC.

Why do ALPA guys all hate the company they work for? Because ALPA says to!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

But...but...sir, how can that be...it was the WEST...who reeled that airplane in and scoped it...

are you saying it was all a lie after all?

Wow, I thought when ALPA went away, we were left with a sound of silence...

Guess not...

very convenient to scope the plane in, but make the East pay for it later...

hell, I'd call you company if I didn't know better...

Good points. Very interesting indeed.

 

[ableoneable]

Yes, USAPA is going to make a concession somewhere. They will start with LOA 93 and negotiate a 3% across the board pay raise on THOSE rates. That's a raise for us; too bad about your Airbus and 737 guys. There's your concession. Equal pay for equal work. Questions?

You had better hope that is not their strategy.

AWAPPA could not ask for a better, more airtight DFR case.

If that happens expect to start cutting a check every month to cover you share of the settlement.

 

[elixir]

You had better hope that is not their strategy.

AWAPPA could not ask for a better, more airtight DFR case.

If that happens expect to start cutting a check every month to cover you share of the settlement.

[Deleted by moderator]

Keep it on topic. Personal attacks are not allowed. Next one gets a trip to the cornfield.

 

[ableoneable]

No one needs to worry about being terminated for not paying dues.

USAPPA does not have their act together.

I have seen one of their demand letters.

"Your balance is based on a combination of of company earning statements and current status."

Obviously USAPPA has been unable to either access or process payroll records so they are making a WAG and expecting people to cut them a check.

This is apparent because this was the bill sent to a pilot on long term disability.

Until USAPA can comply with the law and send a bill based on payroll records (not a wild assed guess) and send it via certified mail, no one is in danger of termination.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

You had better hope that is not their strategy.

AWAPPA could not ask for a better, more airtight DFR case.

If that happens expect to start cutting a check every month to cover you share of the settlement.

A joint agreement is just that, passed by the voting members of the union. It will be what is negotiated and no court will ever deem otherwise. Why don't you file a motion to sit in on the negotiations and then you can get back to us.

Cutting a check? In your dreams. Now that was really, really funny.

 

[ableoneable]

You sound more and more like my ex-wife...

You think that the more you pad your chest, the bigger you sound.

You sound like an old Dorito fart to me...and I've had a few.

See you toads in court...no?

Alright Elixer, you talk big, let's see you back it up.

Please explain to all of us in board land how reducing the wages of the west group, (same craft and class), to redistribute the wealth to the east group is an example of USAPPA fairly representing the interests of both groups?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

1. USAPPA does not have their act together.
2. I have seen one of their demand letters.
3. "Your balance is based on a combination of of company earning statements and current status."
4. Obviously USAPPA has been unable to either access or process payroll records so they are making a WAG and expecting people to cut them a check.
5. This is apparent because this was the bill sent to a pilot on long term disability.
6. Until USAPA can comply with the law and send a bill based on payroll records (not a wild assed guess) and send it via certified mail, no one is in danger of termination.

1. Ah, your opinion. Please keep believing that.
2.Good for you!
3. Yep. True statement.
4. We got what ALPA got. No more, no less. The reconciliation will come at the end of the year when the company supplies the final W2's.
5. All he has to do is write that he/she is on LTD. Then we can verify it and adjust the account.
6. The certified letters will come in due time. Not required yet. Just following the orderly steps.

 

[ableoneable]

A joint agreement is just that, passed by the voting members of the union. It will be what is negotiated and no court will ever deem otherwise. Why don't you file a motion to sit in on the negotiations and then you can get back to us.

Cutting a check? In your dreams. Now that was really, really funny.

So it is your belief that there is no such thing as a fair duty to represent?

Anything that is negotiated and voted in by a 50% + 1 vote margin is by definition immune to a DFR challenge?

I guess that means that the union could negotiate a contract that gives very generous terms to the top 50% (+ one) of the seniority list and simultaneously cuts medical, pay and other benefits to the bottom 50% (- one) and after it passes it would be impervious to any legal challenge.

This is self evident as this is what was negotiated and no court would ever deem otherwise.

Incredible, and I wasted all that time learning about labor relations in college when I could have picked up your simple 50% +1 formula that nullifies all other statutes.

Thank you for educating us all on the incredible power of the popular vote.

 

[luvn737s]

I just hope somebody gets a Utube video of the lawsuit guys getting met on the jetway by the Chief Pilot with a replacement when he gets his "final notice". Bet they cave so fast it makes you head spin!

Gee oldie, imagine if you could channel the hatred you have for your fellow employees and use it for something productive rather than vindictive.

 

[ableoneable]

1. Ah, your opinion. Please keep believing that.
2.Good for you!
3. Yep. True statement.
4. We got what ALPA got. No more, no less. The reconciliation will come at the end of the year when the company supplies the final W2's.
5. All he has to do is write that he/she is on LTD. Then we can verify it and adjust the account.
6. The certified letters will come in due time. Not required yet. Just following the orderly steps.

No ALPA got a copy of my payroll records. They knew exactly what I earned. My dues were calculated based on what I actually earned month to month.

So either you are not telling the truth or you have no idea what you are talking about.

ALPA also knew who was actually working and who was on short or long term disability.

All that USAPA has done with this mailing is waste a lot of your dues money on postage.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Gee oldie, imagine if you could channel the hatred you have for your fellow employees and use it for something productive rather than vindictive.

The same could be said of you. Imagine what could be accomplished. Instead your only goal in life is to see us fail. Amazing, isn't it?

 

[elixir]

Alright Elixer, you talk big, let's see you back it up.

Please explain to all of us in board land how reducing the wages of the west group, (same craft and class), to redistribute the wealth to the east group is an example of USAPPA fairly representing the interests of both groups?

Know what? there was a time when I woulda entertained your suggestion.

Now...I don't give a $hitzkie what it looks like...I say

I have done my time, I owe you nothing....if you feel pain, welcome to my world.

You get nothing from me....and I you..as you have masterfully stated...

Goodbye...good luck....good riddance.

I hope you have a union to rely on...I do....

 

[AAA73Pilot]

AoneA: I'll repost this for your edification.

Treasurer's Report
June 29, 2008

Fellow Pilots,

As this goes to press, chances are many of our pilots have received USAPA’s first dues statement and may have some questions or concerns that I will attempt to address in this update.

As a little background, the Company does not and never has supplied the union with an accounting of monthly pay for each pilot. If you choose to pay your dues via dues check off, normally you are paying the correct amount (1.95%) each paycheck. An issue was created since no pilot paid dues for the period between April 18th and May 1st, whether you were on dues check off or not. In order to estimate the financial obligation for this period we decided to follow past practice and use the W2 information from the previous year and estimate your financial obligation for this period.

We have gone a few steps further and looked at pilots current positions vs. their positions last year, not a perfect science in any case. When making adjustments, we used the current pay scales for your position and equipment and multiplied this by the minimum monthly guaranteed number of hours. Obviously, there are thousands of variables to this process, but we have done our best to be fair. We made hundreds of individual adjustments, each and every one unique. Also, as you review your statement it is important to remember it is not a one month bill, rather it is for the period 18 April thru 16 June.

Since a large number of you signed-up for dues check off early, your bill will be for the two week period in April; it will however amplify slightly if you delayed signing up for dues check off.

For those not on dues check off, your entire yearly billing (with the aforementioned adjustments) will be an estimate, as it has always been. Everyone will always get a full accounting of dues paid for the year in the following January, with either a bill for the balance or refund for the difference. We will also be able to adjust your billing going forward based on your 2008 W2. The beauty of dues check off is again apparent.

Non-members should refer to the ‘Agency Shop Document’ that was mailed by post to all pilots. This document clearly defines your obligations and contains helpful information and guidelines..

For Union Members, we realize there will be a few cases where the status change may increase the amount of your bill. If adjustments are required, they will be made promptly. Please send all requests for review and adjustment to the USAPA office, “Attention: dues reviewâ€￾.

Finally, I would like to add a note regarding the handling of your dues checks. All dues checks are received by a clearing facility in Raleigh, NC under the management of our bank. Each check is scanned, recorded, and the monies deposited directly to USAPA's bank account.

This entire exercise has hopefully made us all more aware of the substantial dollar amount we all pay in dues, which now can be used solely on your behalf. As your Treasurer I remain committed to making sure that all financial contributions are accounted for. Your BPR and Officers are similarly committed to the proper use of our financial resources; your dues dollars.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation.

MK
Treasurer

I guess you missed this earlier.