US pilot labor thread 7/13-7/20

[sharktooth]

The question should be can the lawsuit be viably filed in a NC court. My answer is that I do not know NC law. However, assuming that NC law isn't very much different than federal law I would be personally disinclined to do so. First is the issue of forum shopping because if it were to be filed there in any way, shape or form you can bet your last dollar that the defendants will make sure that any judge knows about the prior history of the issue and, by and large, forum shopping is discouraged. Second is the issue that I suspect that NC law would likely have the same legal issues with the cause of action that the federal court did and in briefing cases federal case law can be used as persuasive authority in state cases.

Forum shopping is discouraged, but, is changing venue from Federal to state considered "forum shopping"? IANAL but two of my friends who are (very successful) say you are likely misusing the phrase, attempting to use it to go from a Federal court to a state court, when it is almost always used to shop for a "beneficial" judge within the same area and not, upon finding out a judge felt the jurisdiction was wrong and then going to the appropriate jurisdiction. Just passing it along.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

That is a very large assumption. Police reports get filed all the time where no prosecution is pursued.

...

BTW, something you said also caused a thought that I had not addressed and that is evidentiary requirements. A civil trial would not require a unanimous verdict and the burden of proof would only be a preponderance of the evidence, which is a much lower threshold than exists in a criminal matter.

If you can't make a convincing case to the police or DA, you have no business in court. That's the first "screening" of the charges. I'd bet the USPS would have SERIOUS issues with the defendants.

Sounds like they have evidence. I guess they could do a DNA test on the feces or something.

The real issue is whether USAPA has ALREADY prevailed. They have apparently stopped the offending actions, which was their goal. I don't think they have anything to gain from a criminal case, so I doubt that they pursue it. Their options include a civil case in NC, as well, but even that would add little in the way of a victory.

 

[hp_fa]

Forum shopping is discouraged, but, is changing venue from Federal to state considered "forum shopping"?

It is when you get unceremoniously kicked from the first forum you filed the action in.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

BTW, something you said also caused a thought that I had not addressed and that is evidentiary requirements. A civil trial would not require a unanimous verdict and the burden of proof would only be a preponderance of the evidence, which is a much lower threshold than exists in a criminal matter.

Even more of the code is cracked.

 

[prechilill]

If you can't make a convincing case to the police or DA, you have no business in court. That's the first "screening" of the charges. I'd bet the USPS would have SERIOUS issues with the defendants.

Sounds like they have evidence. I guess they could do a DNA test on the feces or something.

The real issue is whether USAPA has ALREADY prevailed. They have apparently stopped the offending actions, which was their goal. I don't think they have anything to gain from a criminal case, so I doubt that they pursue it. Their options include a civil case in NC, as well, but even that would add little in the way of a victory.

Please share with us all the name of the west pilot who sent the feces in the mail. Thanks in a advance.

 

[EastUS]

Please share with us all the name of the west pilot who sent the feces in the mail. Thanks in a advance.

Hmmm..should that be construed as an implied confession, with inclusive aspects of concern regarding discovery? :blink: 🙄

Seriously folks, what puzzles me in considering this BS, is just HOW and or WHY would ANYONE, even remotely within the last farthest reaches of their right mind, seek to defend such absurd and disgusting behavior?

 

[Elevation]

Seriously folks, what puzzles me in considering this BS, is just HOW and or WHY would ANYONE, even remotely within the last farthest reaches of their right mind, seek to defend such absurd and disgusting behavior?

Are you talking about over turning a final and binding arbitration or something else?

 

[nycbusdriver]

The judge's ruling on this lawsuit was rendered a day and a half ago.

And yet, not one peep on the usap website. Nothing. Nada. Its like it didn't even happen. Didn't they get the word?

Trying to just be a "good news" union?

If I were a member, I'd like to know immediately what the outcome was to my union spending my hard earned dollars.

This is kind of like putting a time delay on the fire switch........hoping it will go out, and that all will be well.

I guess its going to take quite a bit of time for Stevie B. and his merry band to spin this one into a "victory."


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

I finally find myself agreeing with this particular post of yours. I am extremely disappointed that USAPA did not immediately let the membership know that the lawsuit was dismissed and why...with a disclaimer that they are now considering their options. That's all it would have taken to make me happy with their communications.

But it is well over 48 hours since the judge issued the order and USAPA has still not sent anything out. I find it unconscionable and very ALPA-like.

I sent emails about this lack to the comm committee and my reps on Saturday, and no one has responded yet

If any USAPA officer or rep is reading this, be aware that your credibility is ON THE LINE with even the easties now that you have clammed up on this issue. Some of you know who I am, but save the PMs to me (I don't want excuses) and get the comm committee to do its job.

 

[Piedmont1984]

DITTO !

 

[Phoenix]

.. your credibility is ON THE LINE with even the easties ..

What's the panic all about?

It will take many more decades for this union to degenerate to ALPA standards.

 

[Piedmont1984]

I don't think so. Time is not a luxury we (USAPA) enjoy in this climate. I am also dissappointed that a USAPA forum is not up and running. Long overdue. No valid reason, other than fear of criticism, not to have one - just like ALPA did, just like AWAPPA does.

 

[Phoenix]

If we are gonna compare USAPA to ALPA and AWAPPA based on a web forum then...

Well we've certainly proved that pilots can complain regardless of who they pay dues to.

FedEx Pilots warned us that we would loose our ALPA web board!!

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Please share with us all the name of the west pilot who sent the feces in the mail. Thanks in a advance.

Anyone? Hello.....Hello.....anyone?

Another thing, with Seham being the legal powerhouse and all, why the heck are people asking legal advice from anonymous internet sources? Seems kind of strange to me.

 

[ableoneable]

Seriously folks, what puzzles me in considering this BS, is just HOW and or WHY would ANYONE, even remotely within the last farthest reaches of their right mind, seek to defend such absurd and disgusting behavior?

No one has been defending the alleged feces incident. I have no idea if it really happened or not.

Though I think the pilots who called the hotline repeatedly were out of bounds I though the lawsuit was equally over the line.

The largest problem with USAPA suing those whom they are charged with representing is all of the other named and John Doe defendants. These pilots simply put up posts that said things ranging from; "I don't think any of us should pay dues." to "I am not going to pay dues."

USAPA's allegation was that the pilots who made these posts were engaged in a conspiracy to destroy USAPA and had therefore run afoul of the RICO statutes.

USAPA's action caused these pilots to go out of pocket to retain legal counsel to protect them from what looks to me like a SLAPP suit.

Those individuals are now trying to determine if recovering damages from USAPA is worth the additional legal fees.

I believe the accepted standard in a SLAPP suit is legal fees times three paid to the defendant.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

No one has been defending the alleged feces incident. I have no idea if it really happened or not.
..............................

The largest problem with USAPA suing those whom they are charged with representing is all of the other named and John Doe defendants. These pilots simply put up posts that said things ranging from; "I don't think any of us should pay dues." to "I am not going to pay dues."

USAPA's allegation was that the pilots who made these posts were engaged in a conspiracy to destroy USAPA and had therefore run afoul of the RICO statutes.

USAPA's action caused these pilots to go out of pocket to retain legal counsel to protect them from what looks to me like a SLAPP suit.

Those individuals are now trying to determine if recovering damages from USAPA is worth the additional legal fees.

I believe the accepted standard in a SLAPP suit is legal fees times three paid to the defendant.

All of the above is worthy of repeating a time or ten. Finally, someone said it.

Are any east pilots capable of independant thought? Or do they just repeat their carefully crafted, spoon fed spin?