US pilot labor thread 7/13-7/20

[Phoenix]

.. Sounds like every effort was made to maximize the harm to the alleged perpetrators.
...

Harm?

Harm is when ALPA gave away your pension in the dark of night and denied you a vote.

Generosity is when you are given abundantly more than you deserve.

Restitution.. oh never mind.

 

[EastUS]

Harm?

Harm is when ALPA gave away your pension in the dark of night and denied you a vote.

Generosity is when you are given abundantly more than you deserve.

Restitution.. oh never mind.

Tsk Tsk...on about the pension again...I ask you sir = What's a million or more dollars, one way or the other? Yeah...that one's still astounding to me. Well..we can't make that tragic reality go away..but..at least we made Alpa go away. By "we" I mean those that seriously busted their backs to establish USAPA..and those of us who voted Alpa off the Island...finally!

 

[Phoenix]

Tsk Tsk...on about the pension again...I ask you sir = What's a million or more dollars, one way or the other? Yeah...that one's still astounding to me. Well..we can't make that tragic reality go away..but..at least we made Alpa go away. By "we" I mean those that seriously busted their backs to establish USAPA..and those of us who voted Alpa off the Island...finally!

Ahh, yes the pension given away by ALPA. I feel really bad and have to confess my sins. ALPA should not be accused of causing harm for the pension (humor me and pretend we still revere Prater and Woerth). ALPA didn't give the pension away. Rather it was 13 bozos that did great harm to both the pension and the name of ALPA. Truly the reason USAir pilots did not toss ALPA after the pension issue was because there remained a tenuous confidence in the constitution and bylaws of ALPA. We couldn't believe that slurping on ALPA mamories could truly transform a pilot into... gasp... a compromised oligarchy? Surely there had to be some glimmer of hope that principle could restore ALPA.

Alas, the ALPA kangaroo court decimated any notion of principles when it removed elected reps in PHL while at the same time they protected the Lance and Marshall "glasnost" in CLT..

Yep, ALPA chose to take sides and the side they took was to thumb there noses at any pilot who.. gasp.. expected representation. ALPA could have survived Nicolau. It just couldn't survive its own story line.

That would sorta be like "harm" or self abuse.

 

[ableoneable]

"A touch!..Yes..I do confess it!" Just FYI...for over a thousand years, some miraculous instruments have been available for the passage of thought and ideas....which can actually be interpreted by trained individuals, without ANY penchant, or seeming need to have things nicely outlined and highlighted for their easy consumption. They're called "Books"...which you have perhaps seen around some museums at times, or on historical interest websites..and are clearly unfamiliar with otherwise.

PS: Umm..Is that really your "best shot"?..and you wonder at my "sighs" and "rolling eyes"??...Honestly? 😉 We can have "fun" like this indefinately..but it won't solve the existing issues.

If you think that the issues are going to be "solved" here, on this anonymous board of web you are even more delusional than you appear to be.

Now what are these fascinating "books" of which you speak?

Might I find one in an aviation museum next to a SKYPAGER or a sextant?

 

[ableoneable]

Moderators.

Profanity - To treat with abuse, irreverence or contempt.

In keeping with that definition, I submit that all references with the slur "scab" be deleted, or allow my use of ASSWAPPA to stand.

And if you are going to delete a word, don't delete the entire sentence.

Does anyone else smell corn?

Actually the word "scab" is specifically protected workplace speech. It is therefore, not profane.

 

[ableoneable]

Harm?

Harm is when ALPA gave away your pension in the dark of night and denied you a vote.

Generosity is when you are given abundantly more than you deserve.

Restitution.. oh never mind.

You guys keep blaming "ALPA" for the pension giveback but it was your LEC/MEC reps who did this not ALPA. This is an important distinction because you continue to cite the pension give away as a reason for decertifying ALPA yet at the same time it was not reason enough to recall these same LEC/MEC reps. Notice the logic disconnect?

 

[Piedmont1984]

Actually the word "scab" is specifically protected workplace speech. It is therefore, not profane.

Good for you. Your "speech" is protected. Too bad you don't understand the meaning of the word you bandy about, or choose not to.

I'll repeat the remark I made which was deleted.

Are you okay if I refer to your organization as ASSWAPPA, provided the reference is properly used, as in proper context, as in reference to the content of mailed envelopes.

 

[Piedmont1984]

You guys keep blaming "ALPA" for the pension giveback but it was your LEC/MEC reps who did this not ALPA. This is an important distinction because you continue to cite the pension give away as a reason for decertifying ALPA yet at the same time it was not reason enough to recall these same LEC/MEC reps. Notice the logic disconnect?

No disconnect. The LEC/MEC reps had to rely on ALPA national attorneys and analysts. ALPA national has always had a bias toward the larger pilot groups, DAL and UAL. Delta made no secret of the fact that our demise would fit in nicely with their strategic plan. In fact much of that plan depended on our departure from the industry. We didn't go away and Delta went Chapter 11.

Getting rid of ALPA had the same effect as recalling the reps.

 

[ableoneable]

No disconnect. The LEC/MEC reps had to rely on ALPA national attorneys and analysts. ALPA national has always had a bias toward the larger pilot groups, DAL and UAL. Delta made no secret of the fact that our demise would fit in nicely with their strategic plan. In fact much of that plan depended on our departure from the industry. We didn't go away and Delta went Chapter 11.

Getting rid of ALPA had the same effect as recalling the reps.

So you are saying that your reps were relying on ALPA national? For what exactly?

Somehow this "reliance" on ALPA absolves your reps of responsibility for the pension give away while at the same time saddles ALPA national with complete responsibility?

If this is the truth why the three year delay between the pension give away and the decertification drive?

You absolutely had to get rid of ALPA national because of the pension give away but your poor LEC reps were just victims of national's preoccupation with DAL and UAL and therefore could be kept in place? This is seriously what you are arguing?

 

[ableoneable]

Good for you. Your "speech" is protected. Too bad you don't understand the meaning of the word you bandy about, or choose not to.

I'll repeat the remark I made which was deleted.

Are you okay if I refer to your organization as ASSWAPPA, provided the reference is properly used, as in proper context, as in reference to the content of mailed envelopes.

It was not I who deleted your post.

Your argument is with the mods, not with me.

 

[Piedmont1984]

No - once again you misunderstand. The MEC, whether they abetted national's agenda or were duped by it, needed to go just as ALPA needed to go. Too many revolving doors leading to cushy careers at ALPA national while the best interests of the line pilots were being sacrificed.

The same grievances your group had with ALPA just a few years back.

 

[Piedmont1984]

It was not I who deleted your post.

Your argument is with the mods, not with me.

Oh no. You called me a scab, not the moderators. I simply responded with a slur.

 

[ableoneable]

No - once again you misunderstand. The MEC, whether they abetted national's agenda or were duped by it, needed to go just as ALPA needed to go. Too many revolving doors leading to cushy careers at ALPA national while the best interests of the line pilots were being sacrificed.

Again, then why the three year delay between the pension give-away and the decertification drive?

If the MEC "needed to go" why was no recall mounted? In fact I believe some of the reps involved were re-elected in the interim.

I still see a logic disconnect.

 

[Piedmont1984]

It is a phenomenon which is time related and is commonly referred to as "the last straw" - Nicolau being the precipitating event.

 

[Phoenix]

You guys keep blaming "ALPA" for the pension giveback but it was your LEC/MEC reps who did this not ALPA. This is an important distinction because you continue to cite the pension give away as a reason for decertifying ALPA yet at the same time it was not reason enough to recall these same LEC/MEC reps. Notice the logic disconnect?

Don't read so fast...

http://www.usaviation.com/forums/index.php...st&p=626268

I have many fond memories of ALPA's great exploits. No need to convince me.