US pilot labor thread 7/13-7/20

[SegmentKing]

Its ok... we could joke around and say "well, being an Eastie, you should be able to tell what kind of plane it is, considering that's what you did your IOE on"

*grin*

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

Hey, if you don't pay dues what the hell do you care how USAPA spends it's money. Pay your dues then you can #### all you want.

Sure, blast the messenger. Ignore the message. Feeling better now?

But to answer your doltish question, I will repeat simply what all of you eastyz have been banking on ever since you got the abomination of usap rolling: "Its an investment in our future."

Some investment you have there........no thank you very much!


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[sharktooth]

Oh boy, here we go again: usap has placed a full page ad in the USAToday. I have not personally seen it, but it is in regards to the fuel training broohaha usap is currently having with management.

<snip>

Now, it is generally felt that the company is over-reacting with their new personalized fuel conservation training program, but with this ad, usap shows me that they pretty much hang out there with a hair trigger ready to fire at any moment.

You have yet to see the ad (first paragraph) but you still see fit to make a pointed criticism (third) about it?

Talk about ready, fire, aim!!! You are the epitome of such. Integrity should matter, but, in your case, apparently not.

 

[Pi brat]

Thank you for that. I didn't know. :down: Since my avatar is a DC3, that ought to tell you something about how much I know regarding servers and such. You are a modern day Wizard of Oz about many things. I still bake from scratch. There is no snickerdoodle on earth compared to mine! @@@@@@<-----here, try one.

UU

Looks like a Convair to me.

 

[freedom]

Nice landing captain is correct , all your new “union†did was waste a boat load of money … perhaps you union would be better off taking some of that money and trying to help your pilots who will eventually go to furlough …


Don’t rock the boat , this isn’t the time … if some of you haven’t been paying attention , the ship is now sinking ….

 

[ableoneable]

Nice landing captain is correct , all your new “union†did was waste a boat load of money … perhaps you union would be better off taking some of that money and trying to help your pilots who will eventually go to furlough …


Don’t rock the boat , this isn’t the time … if some of you haven’t been paying attention , the ship is now sinking ….

I will have to disagree on this one.

Though I think the fuel issue is purely political, I think USAPA is playing their hand very well.

I don't think that anybody who looks at the situation from a detached point of view would agree that USAPA wasted their money on those adds. The company may well be right that the pilots in question have been acting with malace, but they have handled it badly and thus have provided USAPA with a point of leverage.

The company may well decide it is easier and cheaper to pay USAPA's price rather than publicly fight them on an issue that, regardless of the merits, management is bound to come out of on the losing side.



On the issue of ALPA not suing those they are charged with representing: I did a quick google search and I can't find a single example of ALPA suing an individual pilot, be that a union member or not. This does not include the possibility of counter claims resulting from an individual pilot filing suit against ALPA.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I will have to disagree on this one.

Though I think the fuel issue is purely political, I think USAPA is playing their hand very well.

I don't think that anybody who looks at the situation from a detached point of view would agree that USAPA wasted their money on those adds. The company may well be right that the pilots in question have been acting with malace, but they have handled it badly and thus have provided USAPA with a point of leverage.

The company may well decide it is easier and cheaper to pay USAPA's price rather than publicly fight them on an issue that, regardless of the merits, management is bound to come out of on the losing side.



On the issue of ALPA not suing those they are charged with representing: I did a quick google search and I can't find a single example of ALPA suing an individual pilot, be that a union member or not. This does not include the possibility of counter claims resulting from an individual pilot filing suit against ALPA.

Good points.

The other thing is that, whether or not the company retrains anybody, they CAN'T prevail on the fuel issue. It's a TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY for the company to take senior pilots off the line, send them to training for two days, and put them back on the line. Does anybody really think that a two or three day training class is going to change the minds of these seasoned individuals? I'd trust their judgement to add a few extra minutes of fuel when thay deem it necessary over the company "bean counters" anyday, and so does the FAA.

I think the company is making a HUGE mistake by pressing this issue. If anything DOES ever happen which is fuel related, and the company can be seen to be culpable by encouraging pilots to accept less than adequate fuel reserves (not that any would), it would be VERY BAD for the entire company.

As far as the ALPA lawsuit thing goes, I don't know whether they sued folks or not, but they sure let folks believe they would if they needed to. If they never did because of the bureaucratic issues and such of running a huge "dinosaur" of an organization, oh well, their loss.

 

[checksix]

This is the USAPA phone message for Wednesday, July 16th, 2008, with three items.

Item One: USAPA released its first full page ad in a national newspaper today bringing to light Management’s attack on Captain’s Authority. Page five of the USA Today for Wednesday, July 16th, was a letter to US Airways valued passengers from the US Airways pilots. It read (in part) "... US Airways management has recently begun pressuring your Captain to reduce fuel levels for your flight in order to save money. Pilots who fail to conform to Company expectations are subject to “training†events which could result in the termination of their careers..." The full text of the ad can be found in the Library section of the USAPA web site.

USAPA has also been on national and local area TV (including CNN, the Lou Dobbs Show, Larry King Live and Fox News, and will continue the campaign to raise public awareness on the importance of Captain’s Authority and good, sound judgment that keeps our pilots operating "in the green.â€

Unfortunately, Management initiated today the discriminatory and punitive training of two of our pilots. Choosing two senior International A-330 Captains is part of the clear, obvious message Management wants to send to our pilots, and that message is being sent by trampling on Captain’s Authority .

USAPA is working on different fronts on this issue, and has sent a call to action to our Pilots to help us verify the accuracy of our flight plans. The fuel loads for our flights are based upon the planned burn to the destination. We are asking our pilots to immediately file an ASAP report anytime their actual burn is greater than the planned burn as shown on the flight plan. The ASAP report can be as simple as stating that your flight plan was inaccurate as the actual fuel burn to destination was greater than flight plan burn to destination. It would be helpful if the planned fuel burn and the actual fuel burn numbers were included in the report.

ASAP forms are available in domicile crew rooms, at the Regional Director of Flying Offices, and are available for download on the HUB in the Safety Reporting System. In addition, starting Thursday this week, you will begin to see Pilot 4 Pilot Volunteers in PHL and CLT who will have a supply of ASAP forms. Reach out to these P4P volunteers for information and guidance as they will have all the latest information. P4P pilots will also gather any information or paperwork and ensure it reaches the Board. Remember, you are the final link in the safety chain. Your judgment and Captain’s Authority are well defined in the FAR’s and FOM. Use your knowledge, judgment, and authority wisely. Be safe and ensure the comfort of your passengers and crew.

Item two: Yesterday the BPR held a conference call where they discussed two agenda items. The first item discussed was the Captain’s Authority issue and the second item was the recent court decision involving AWAPA. USAPA Attorney, Lee Seham, spent a considerable amount of time discussing the implications of the decision and our options moving forward. It is clear that the BPR has several courses of action they may pursue. The BPR completed the talks and will continue to weigh their strategic options

Item Three: PHL held their first USAPA Domicile Meeting today. All three Domicile Rep’s, all four USAPA Officers and many USAPA Committee people were present. There were Committee Briefings from the Merger, Communications and Scheduling Committees. Domicile meetings represent an excellent forum in which pilots can both stay informed by receiving information directly from local Domicile Reps and BPR Committees, and make their views known directly to their Representatives. We are very happy with the level of participation in these meetings, and encourage everyone to attend these domicile meetings whenever possible.

Thank you for listening.

 

[nycbusdriver]

If anything DOES ever happen which is fuel related, and the company can be seen to be culpable by encouraging pilots to accept less than adequate fuel reserves (not that any would), it would be VERY BAD for the entire company.

The company would be the first to blame the pilot for poor judgment. The FAA would be the second. Neither one who step up to shoulder any responsibility whatsoever and it would all go down on record as "pilot error." Bank on it.

 

[Mtnman928]

Looks more like a Martin or Convair, its hard due to tell to the small size. But it is not a DC anything.

Convair 240

MM

 

[traderjake]

Hey, if you don't pay dues what the hell do you care how USAPA spends it's money. Pay your dues then you can #### all you want.

They are driving away our customers and making the rest of us look stupid by association.

Even a mentally challenged, hard line USAPA supporter should see that.

 

[kubotapilot]

Hey NLC,

Are you the crying little girl pilot from DP's PHX crew base meeting video from last week with the four kids to feed etc.. etc... Cmon, that must be you

Sure, blast the messenger. Ignore the message. Feeling better now?

But to answer your doltish question, I will repeat simply what all of you eastyz have been banking on ever since you got the abomination of usap rolling: "Its an investment in our future."

Some investment you have there........no thank you very much!


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

 

[Megasnoop]

Good points.

I'd trust their judgement to add a few extra minutes of fuel when thay deem it necessary over the company "bean counters" anyday, and so does the FAA.

Yeah, some rational thought on this by both East and West. When we had Dispatch in PIT, we never had any of these kind of issues. But when it was all moved out to PHX, not many of our dispatchers followed the work. Robert Isom, the classic bean-counter, doesn't really have a clue about the responsibility for aircraft safety that rests with the PIC. And what he understands, he is trying to destroy.

Another thing the USA-Today article accomplishes, it puts to rest any idea that USAPA is hurting for money. I think their ads run $250K per page. As an independant union, with ALL dues smoney coming back in-house, USAPA has the funds to protect its members and doesn't have to go begging to a national union for support. With $450K/month coming in, and that's without any dues from the West, USAPA won't be the Cowardly Lion that "represented" us for 60 years.

As far as the ALPA lawsuit thing goes, I don't know whether they sued folks or not, but they sure let folks believe they would if they needed to. If they never did because of the bureaucratic issues and such of running a huge "dinosaur" of an organization, oh well, their loss.

ALPA has never been afraid to discipline its own members through Article VIII charges. And as we have seen in the past, ALPA has a history of using that to punish. But ALPA was punishing union members. Not a single West pilot charged had joined. Personally, I thought the lawsuit was close to the edge, but just like the USA-Today Ad, USAPA is making the point that they are NOT going to do business as usual and they're not going to be trashed by either the company or a few malcontents who are committed to destroyng the union. S

 

[luvthe9]

Hey NLC,

Are you the crying little girl pilot from DP's PHX crew base meeting video from last week with the four kids to feed etc.. etc... Cmon, that must be you

WOW.... I just saw the tape there is something wrong with this chick, I would never get in the back of a plane with her, I guess we also need to set up a fund to help her out, quite the story.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Another thing the USA-Today article accomplishes, it puts to rest any idea that USAPA is hurting for money. I think their ads run $250K per page. As an independant union, with ALL dues smoney coming back in-house, USAPA has the funds to protect its members and doesn't have to go begging to a national union for support. With $450K/month coming in, and that's without any dues from the West, USAPA won't be the Cowardly Lion that "represented" us for 60 years.

I totally agree with your sentiment. But, to set the record straight, someone posted a link to the USA Today advertising rates and it appears that the ad cost about half of what you said...about $122K.

ALPA would have never spent that money on an ad to defend their members. ALPA would have spent that money on some executive vice president's housing allowance, or car allowance. Funny thing, I think Beebe's housing allowance was about $122K per year. That didn't include his car allowance or his salary.

USAPA is making the point that they are NOT going to do business as usual and they're not going to be trashed by either the company or a few malcontents who are committed to destroyng the union. S

And for this I yell: "HURRAY!"

This is not a PR goof by USAPA that will come back to haunt them. It's the line in the sand that real unions are willing to draw and defend. A PR nightmare for the company, yes. But this, too, shall pass. And those customers who actually saw the ad and read WHAT it said, not what the "chicken littles" on USAviation.com THINK it said, will continue to fly USAirways simply because they know that the USAPA-represented pilots are NOT going to be pushed around by a company more interested in saving a nickel than it prudently operating their flights.