US Pilot Labor Thread 7/20-7/26

[oldiebutgoody]

Airline mergers have been changed forever by this idiotic award. Even the US Congress passed a law to keep it from happening again (of course, it can only be applied if BOTH sides are NOT represented by the same union).

NO union group WILL EVER allow arbitration until absolutely the last option, if then. I would bet that it will even be negotiated out of contracts after this, replaced by a spelled out merger policy. ALPA should have done that years ago.

 

[HighbutFast]

In bidding power for what? Transatlantic widebody flying which they never really had any claim or hope? They didn't move back an RCH for the bidding power of the positions they already held.

DING DING DING !!!! we have a winner! Seems a little loose-lipped mistake there by our speedy friend barberpole.
As NYC just said, why don't you share with us EXACTLY what these senior narrowbody captains lost again?
According to you, it's whatever the top 500 on the East had....WIDEBODIES...which was NEVER in the cards for a leisure airline based in the desert.

Maybe you should preview your posts, you just made our point.

 

[nostradamus]

We'll see.....I disagree with your assessment. I was just commenting on your whining that it wasn't a 'fair' deal. It was fair to the rest of the aviation world and a highly respected arbitrator.

I have posted this many times before and I will do it one more time. It is amazing how west pilots categorize the east pilots as old decrepit individuals, almost to the point where a lawyer tells me it smells of an atmosphere of age discrimination allowed by a company to fester. (more info to follow in the future) Yet you tell us a highly respected 80 plus year old arbitrator is ok with you, your pilots are discriminating against older pilots by creating an atmosphere of intolerance to such.

Another respected arbitrator saw things differently regarding the merger. What is the difference between these findings, alpa interference. This is a non issue now, the company proved which list they accepted by the announced furloughs.

By the way could the present fuel situation Usairways pilots are dealing with at this time be attributed to the west dispatchers vengeance, research is necessary on this subject.

For another arbitrators thoughts on the merger, click here.

 

[ableoneable]

"Once upon a Time"....It took years of devoted effort, excellent scores in most everything, generally, service to one's country as well, at least a Bachelor's Degree...and a substantial amount of initial experience, as well as good judgement, to ever become "An Airline Pilot"...Clearly, as is made plain out west, and very sadly...those times are now but a footnote in history....

Since you set the standard on airline pilot qualifications I would still like an answer to my original question.

How much flight time did you have when you were hired by the airline that was later absorbed by USAir?

I still bet it was less than 2000hrs.

 

[ableoneable]

Airline mergers have been changed forever by this idiotic award. Even the US Congress passed a law to keep it from happening again (of course, it can only be applied if BOTH sides are NOT represented by the same union).

Do you pay attention at all?

The new law actually specifies arbitration as part of the process.

NO union group WILL EVER allow arbitration until absolutely the last option, if then. I would bet that it will even be negotiated out of contracts after this, replaced by a spelled out merger policy. ALPA should have done that years ago.

Really? No union WILL EVER?

Didn't Delta/NWA just decide to go to arbitration?

 

[nycbusdriver]

For another arbitrators thoughts on the merger, click here.

Thanks for posting that link, Nostradamus. I had not seen that before. It is an eloquent statement by an arbitrator who still has the cognitive power and patience to think it out and cut through the BS of the attorneys of each side. Did anyone send Mr. Bloch's award to Nicolau so he could see how it's really done and maybe prevent himself from being fired from yet another industry?

 

[Black Flag]

Since you set the standard on airline pilot qualifications I would still like an answer to my original question.

How much flight time did you have when you were hired by the airline that was later absorbed by USAir?

I still bet it was less than 2000hrs.

I was one of the younger guys in my class when I was hired and I was "Low time" with a little
over 3000 hours. There was NOONE hired in my class with 2000 hours as that was the minimum back then.

 

[nostradamus]

Do you pay attention at all?

The new law actually specifies arbitration as part of the process.



Really? No union WILL EVER?

Didn't Delta/NWA just decide to go to arbitration?

Inform us with links please.

 

[ableoneable]

Inform us with links please.

I get most of my information from print not the net.

Pick up a copy of Av Week or Flt International.

The legislation is well documented and it provides a minimum set of standards and protections. It provides for binding arbitration as a final step should a negotiated settlement not be possible.

Had this law been in effect at the time of the AWA/AAA merger there would have likely been no noticeable difference.

The Delta/NWA information is fairly recent and I trust you can find the primary sources on your own.

I am not your link mommy.

 

[nostradamus]

I get most of my information from print not the net.

Pick up a copy of Av Week or Flt International.

The legislation is well documented and it provides a minimum set of standards and protections. It provides for binding arbitration as a final step should a negotiated settlement not be possible.

Had this law been in effect at the time of the AWA/AAA merger there would have likely been no noticeable difference.

The Delta/NWA information is fairly recent and I trust you can find the primary sources on your own.

I am not your link mommy.

You made a statement in the past that you thought east did not take care of its furloughed pilots medical. I provided a link that proved without a reasonable doubt that we did. In fact it made you look like an ass.

You have a history of adding statements in your posts that are not backed by facts.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Had this law been in effect at the time of the AWA/AAA merger there would have likely been no noticeable difference.

Yes, of course there would have been no difference since the law states that labor groups represented by the same union still have to use that union's procedures.

Had the law been in effect and either east or west been successful in previous years in their attempts to dump ALPA, the outcome would likely have been very different on several levels.

First, if it had gotten to arbitration, there would have been no vague, ambiguous ALPA merger policy to deal with. The arbitrator would have had his/her wits (those that are still young enough to have wits, that is) and decades of precedent to fall back on. And the law specifies Allegheny-Mohawk as the starting point (which was a DOH merger.)

Second, the arbitration would have been a FEDERAL arbitration, not a union policy-based arbitration. That would have given "final and binding" the weight that the westies only wish the ALPA arbtiration had.

 

[nycbusdriver]

You made a statement in the past that you thought east did not take care of its furloughed pilots medical. I provided a link that proved without a reasonable doubt that we did. In fact it made you look like an ass.

You have a history of adding statements in your posts that are not backed by facts.

Aw, come on, Nos.

It's just so much easier to make up "facts" to support your argument than to actually go get references and cite sources.

 

[BoeingBoy]

You made a statement in the past that you thought east did not take care of its furloughed pilots medical. I provided a link that proved without a reasonable doubt that we did. In fact it made you look like an ass.

Of course, after paying the bill for medical coverage for furloughees who weren't covered elsewhere for a while, the majority of voting pilots decided to discontinue that benefit for the furloughees.

Jim

 

[nostradamus]

Of course, after paying the bill for medical coverage for furloughees who weren't covered elsewhere for a while, the majority of voting pilots decided to discontinue that benefit for the furloughees.

Jim

How long did it take to discontinue it Jim.

 

[BoeingBoy]

How long did it take to discontinue it Jim.

I don't recall that but a guess would be a few years. As I recall, the vote took place after the MDA suit was filed (lots of "how dare those MDA people sue their fellow fellow pilots!!) - the same suit everyone is so in favor of now. Also around that time Garland was accusing the MDA pilots of wanting out of seniority recall to mainline because the MDA folks were telling the MEC that having more active mainline pilots would be helpful in the seniority integration - something else that everyone now seems to agree with.

Jim