US pilot labor thread 7/5-7/12

[luvthe9]

Now there's an idea that would work............any truth to the fact that it is actually being considered?

Word is that's' how it went down. The company made the right choice.

 

[dariencc]

Word is that's' how it went down. The company made the right choice.

Wow. What a difference from years gone by. This issue would have festered for weeks under Alpo as Pollock threatened to unleash another of his self-described "strongly written" letters.

Actual adult leadership at our union. See how well it works. Bravo USAPA!

 

[Pacemaker]

And in the meantime the company continues to downsize the west side and park the west airplanes due to the lower cost east operation.

Pre-merger CASM's were around 15c/ASM for the east and 8c/ASM for the west....not sure how the east side became the low cost leader but I'm not surprised since usair did the same thing to PSA and Piedmont, two other LCC's that suddenly couldn't make it on their own home turf once they became assimilated.

 

[sharktooth]

Pre-merger CASM's were around 15c/ASM for the east and 8c/ASM for the west....not sure how the east side became the low cost leader but I'm not surprised since usair did the same thing to PSA and Piedmont, two other LCC's that suddenly couldn't make it on their own home turf once they became assimilated.

The answer is right in front of you. You asked the correct question, the answer seems, confusing. Why?

 

[Pacemaker]

The answer is right in front of you. You asked the correct question, the answer seems, confusing. Why?

[Deleted by moderator. ]

Pacemaker check your PM's.

 

[sharktooth]

(Deleted by moderator)

I am asking you to think. Use your head, for once.

 

[Phoenix]

USAPA Update
July 6, 2008


On Tuesday, July 1, the entire BPR signed a letter to the pilots that reported Management’s plans, which we believe to be in violation of our Collective Bargaining Agreement, to schedule eight Senior International US Airways Captains for a day of both classroom discussion and simulator “training†in what they are calling “Fuel Conservation Training.†In addition, we believe the Company’s motives are to influence the Captains’ decision-making process, favoring economics over safety, which is not consistent with the authority and responsibility bestowed upon our Captains by the Federal Aviation Regulations. They took this action because the Captains, on some occasions, added what amounts to approximately 10-15 minutes of arrival fuel to a trans-oceanic flight.

The eight pilots that Management selected did nothing other than exercise their ‘Captain’s Authority,’ and make sound judgment calls to keep their passengers and crew safe. For that, they are being singled out and called in for phantom ‘training,’ designed to affect behavior based on economics instead of safety. All of this without the rights of due process afforded a Pilot in his contract.

Every single US Airways pilot needs to think about what is transpiring on our property. This change in the rights of pilots to exercise ‘Captain’s Authority’ in any situation will bring a new and foreboding era to the entire airline piloting profession and it is being born here at US Airways.

Training for safety will now be corrupted into training for economics. Captain’s Authority will be drastically diluted using the hammer of loss of license jeopardy in training events clearly outside the intent and parameters of our mutually agreed upon AQP training program. Rather than emphasizing in the simulator how much fuel it takes to perform a go-around in an AB-330, it will now be demonstrated how little fuel you can get by with. Intimidation and harassment will be used in all arenas Management deems worthwhile.

The following bullet points will help you understand the facts related to this issue:

• The Captains in question followed the FAR's, the FOM, and the Pilot Handbook.
• There is no mechanism or requirement for these Pilots to take what management is calling “training.â€
• There are no provisions for this “training†inside the training section of our contract.
• There are no provisions for this “training†inside the AQP Training Program.

Fellow pilots, this is unprecedented in our careers. After enduring severe economic attacks during the beginning of the decade, it appears Management’s new focus is to undermine ‘Captain’s Authority’ through intimidation and harassment, in effect controlling the numerous judgment calls you make on every flight. USAPA is currently reviewing ALL options to defend these pilots. We believe the outcome will affect the profession.

 

[luvthe9]

They took this action because the Captains, on some occasions, added what amounts to approximately 10-15 minutes of arrival fuel to a trans-oceanic flight.
EASY FIX- DON'T TAKE THE FLIGHT.

 

[cleardirect]

So one of you east coast types want to explain the USAPA logic to me.

If an east coast pilot puts on extra fuel, obviously for no reason. (The company is not pulling everyone that did it into training.) That is exercising good judgment and "captains authority"￾. But when a west coast pilot exercises good judgment and "captains authority"￾ by deigning a jump seater for safety reasons. USAPA files a frivolous law suit and attempts to get a temporary restraining order against using captains authority and following the FOM and FAR's. Calls the chief pilot, the VP of ops or the senior Vice president of operations in order to use the company to force pilots that you supposedly represent into disregarding captains authority?


Could someone please explain why this is not hypocrisy at it's worst?

 

[EastUS]

So one of you east coast types want to explain the USAPA logic to me.

If an east coast pilot puts on extra fuel, obviously for no reason. (The company is not pulling everyone that did it into training.) That is exercising good judgment and “captains authorityâ€￾. But when a west coast pilot exercises good judgment and “captains authorityâ€￾ by deigning a jump seater for safety reasons. USAPA files a frivolous law suit and attempts to get a temporary restraining order against using captains authority and following the FOM and FAR‘s.

Could someone please explain why this is not hypocrisy at it‘s worst?

Sure...and I'll even do it in terms suitable for westie "thought" processes...or at least...try my best to dumb it down to the max: "If an east coast pilot puts on extra fuel, obviously for no reason." How the HeII do YOU even pretend to know what the associated operational issues were? Your follow on is just too utterly brilliant for words = "(The company is not pulling everyone that did it into training.)" By that...oh "fellow pilot"...I must assume that you immediately believe that the company's completely correct, and that you have no problem with their actions?....Words simply fail me..so let's just stick with the basics:

1) Engines need fuel.
2) The Atlantic's kinda' cold and wet.
3) A LOT can/does happen with weather/airports/winds aloft/etc in the course of many hours.
4) NO/ZERO/ZIP flameouts have EVER been associated with assinine little punks having jumpseat " distress issues".
5) Grow Up....if at ALL even remotely possible...I'll hardly be holding my breath on that "issue"...nor do I wish to inflict any "unsafe Stress" levels on you poor widdle things out there, that need to use the jumpseat as your personal little baby pacifier....Bring some gum next flight..and you'll be fine.

 

[luvthe9]

So one of you east coast types want to explain the USAPA logic to me.

If an east coast pilot puts on extra fuel, obviously for no reason. (The company is not pulling everyone that did it into training.) That is exercising good judgment and �€œcaptains authority�€�. But when a west coast pilot exercises good judgment and �€œcaptains authority�€� by deigning a jump seater for safety reasons. USAPA files a frivolous law suit and attempts to get a temporary restraining order against using captains authority and following the FOM and FAR's. Calls the chief pilot, the VP of ops or the senior Vice president of operations in order to use the company to force pilots that you supposedly represent into disregarding captains authority?


Could someone please explain why this is not hypocrisy at it's worst?

My 5 year old is busy now otherwise he could explain it to you Also it's not "USAPA logic" it's common sense.

 

[Piedmont1984]

So one of you east coast types want to explain the USAPA logic to me.

If an east coast pilot puts on extra fuel, obviously for no reason. (The company is not pulling everyone that did it into training.) That is exercising good judgment and "captains authority"�. But when a west coast pilot exercises good judgment and "captains authority"� by deigning a jump seater for safety reasons. USAPA files a frivolous law suit and attempts to get a temporary restraining order against using captains authority and following the FOM and FAR's. Calls the chief pilot, the VP of ops or the senior Vice president of operations in order to use the company to force pilots that you supposedly represent into disregarding captains authority?


Could someone please explain why this is not hypocrisy at it's worst?

You can't possibly be serious - can you???

 

[N924PS]

So one of you east coast types want to explain the USAPA logic to me.

If an east coast pilot puts on extra fuel, obviously for no reason. (The company is not pulling everyone that did it into training.) That is exercising good judgment and "captains authority"?. But when a west coast pilot exercises good judgment and "captains authority"? by deigning a jump seater for safety reasons. USAPA files a frivolous law suit and attempts to get a temporary restraining order against using captains authority and following the FOM and FAR's. Calls the chief pilot, the VP of ops or the senior Vice president of operations in order to use the company to force pilots that you supposedly represent into disregarding captains authority?


Could someone please explain why this is not hypocrisy at it's worst?

Sure. The fuel issue is genuinely related to safety. The jumpseat issue is not.

It's about retribution, plain and simple, and denying the jumpseat under the guise of "safety" is a lame argument.

The jumpseat is truly a privilege, a contractual provision, and should not be used as a political tool.

As the West employees are about to learn with the downsizing of LAS, most of us that commute really never intended to, but over the years, the closure of multiple crew bases has forced hundreds if not thousands of employees to commute. Not easy to pack up your family and relocate, especially in todays economic environment.

East or West, denying a fellow USAirways pilot, or any pilot , for that matter, a jumpseat is a cheap shot. Especially when it is being used to get to or from work.

 

[luvthe9]

By the way all AWA pilots as well as anyone else are ALWAYS welcome on my jumpseat.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Sure. The fuel issue is genuinely related to safety. The jumpseat issue is not.

It's about retribution, plain and simple, and denying the jumpseat under the guise of "safety" is a lame argument.

The jumpseat is truly a privilege, a contractual provision, and should not be used as a political tool.

As the West employees are about to learn with the downsizing of LAS, most of us that commute really never intended to, but over the years, the closure of multiple crew bases has forced hundreds if not thousands of employees to commute. Not easy to pack up your family and relocate, especially in todays economic environment.

East or West, denying a fellow USAirways pilot, or any pilot , for that matter, a jumpseat is cheap shot. Especially when it is being used to get to or from work.

Since some of the jumpseat nazis out west need to be "emotionally comfortable" before accepting an east rider - please let us know how it goes when you deny an FAA examiner the jumpseat. After all, he is there to scrutinize your every action from departure to arrival and your certificate may be in jeopardy each and every time the FAA shows up.

Denying other pilots the jumpseat is not about safety - it's about arrested development.