US pilot labor thread 7/5-7/12

[nycbusdriver]

So you are saying that usap doesn't have a forum because they don't want to permit the rank and file to voice their opinion? And they don't want to have to pay for it? That seems pretty oppressive - and cheap - to me. I say open a durn forum - its one of the best ways to obtain unfiltered information.


INTEGRITY MATTERS

NLC

No. That's NOT what I'm saying. USAPA gives its members every opportunity to voice their opinion. I have done so many times via email, through my base representatives and directly to committee members. You pay your dues and go get heard. It's that simple.

Somehow you seem to think that internet forums are a right. The fact is that they are not even a necessity. And they are usually a big headache to whoever sponsors them. We here on the USAviation.com forums are testament to that.

 

[ladypassenger]

Well, at least some of the vitriol ceased and you started taking pride in your airline (it seems to be one house but divided) and asked me to reconsider as you do want passengers flying with both US Airways and America West and the survival of your company. All labor disputes are sad occasions (I've been involved in some and negotiated in some) when both sides usually have great points. Here it seems there are three sides - east, west and the company. Is that right?

It is always concerning when folks provide a public service such as you do but then decide to air their dirty laundry in public because it generally leads to public distrust of the company. Surely one of you is capable of designing a private forum that requires your employee number or other company i.d. to join (it can be kept secret so anonymity can still be the case). Why on earth would you want the general public and management reading your distrust of each other and your anger with your situation and with your fellow employees? It just weakens your bargaining position. It is so easy to out maneuver people who are seething with anger while at the bargaining table! A dear friend used to negotiate on behalf of the pilots of a major airline so I have some knowledge of the process in your profession. Remember the pilot who recently refused to fly due to a labor dispute upsetting him - the flying public consider that a serious inconvenience - do you think your public anger makes potential passengers think they might end up on a plane with a pilot who does something similar? And it really doesn't matter if DL, NW, UA are all in the same boat - it's this forum I and others are reading.


I will re-consider my thinking on flying with U.S. Airways and, if I do choose your company, I hope the captain and first officer on my aircraft are the folks here who posted in reply that they want me in their aircraft, want me to have a totally routine flight (memorable for the service and ease as opposed to any mishap) and would welcome the chance to show their professionalism.

I hope everyone has a great day, great flights and the ability to discuss difference without name calling and such stomach acid producing anger - I think I'll buy stock in Rolaids - you folks must eat a lot of it! : )

 

[nostradamus]

I hope everyone has a great day, great flights and the ability to discuss difference without name calling and such stomach acid producing anger - I think I'll buy stock in Rolaids - you folks must eat a lot of it! : )

Company baiting posters. What happens if the west refuses to pay dues oh wise and wonderful one? The abridged version please.

 

[ALPO NO MO]

There is a forum ready to go but the basic problem is who should be allowed on? If the US Airways Pilots Association sponsors it, should non dues paying U pilots be allowed access? If so, what will keep it from sabotage or becoming a free-for-all?

What if postings were used as retribution against pilots by other pilots?

Unfortunately, the good things that could come from having a forum are not possible right now.
For the time being, this board is "it" and what "it" is, is thanks to some level of anonymity here, the cyber equivalent of a game of "Whack-a-mole"

 

[Piedmont1984]

There is a forum ready to go but the basic problem is who should be allowed on? If the US Airways Pilots Association sponsors it, should non dues paying U pilots be allowed access? If so, what will keep it from sabotage or becoming a free-for-all?

What if postings were used as retribution against pilots by other pilots?

Unfortunately, the good things that could come from having a forum are not possible right now.
For the time being, this board is "it" and what "it" is, is thanks to some level of anonymity here, the cyber equivalent of a game of "Whack-a-mole"

The ALPA national forum was precisely a free for all, no holds barred, insults and personal attacks welcome. Posters could not hide their identities. The cornfield, if it existed, was never used.

The exchanges were often emotional, sometimes crude, always lively. Plenty of give and take.

And in the end - it seemed to police itself. The more outrageous posters vented and then spent themselves and eventually settled down and engaged in rational debate.

I would not be concerned. I would even let the non-dues payers participate. Might change their outlook.

This schism is an internal issue, I don't care to publicly air our dirty laundry.

 

[jetjok1]

Well, at least some of the vitriol ceased and you started taking pride in your airline (it seems to be one house but divided) and asked me to reconsider as you do want passengers flying with both US Airways and America West and the survival of your company. All labor disputes are sad occasions (I've been involved in some and negotiated in some) when both sides usually have great points. Here it seems there are three sides - east, west and the company. Is that right?

It is always concerning when folks provide a public service such as you do but then decide to air their dirty laundry in public because it generally leads to public distrust of the company. Surely one of you is capable of designing a private forum that requires your employee number or other company i.d. to join (it can be kept secret so anonymity can still be the case). Why on earth would you want the general public and management reading your distrust of each other and your anger with your situation and with your fellow employees? It just weakens your bargaining position. It is so easy to out maneuver people who are seething with anger while at the bargaining table! A dear friend used to negotiate on behalf of the pilots of a major airline so I have some knowledge of the process in your profession. Remember the pilot who recently refused to fly due to a labor dispute upsetting him - the flying public consider that a serious inconvenience - do you think your public anger makes potential passengers think they might end up on a plane with a pilot who does something similar? And it really doesn't matter if DL, NW, UA are all in the same boat - it's this forum I and others are reading.


I will re-consider my thinking on flying with U.S. Airways and, if I do choose your company, I hope the captain and first officer on my aircraft are the folks here who posted in reply that they want me in their aircraft, want me to have a totally routine flight (memorable for the service and ease as opposed to any mishap) and would welcome the chance to show their professionalism.

I hope everyone has a great day, great flights and the ability to discuss difference without name calling and such stomach acid producing anger - I think I'll buy stock in Rolaids - you folks must eat a lot of it! : )

Lady-one thing you need to take into account. How many total pilots USAirways employs and how many pilots post here.It doesn't come close to a poll, survey, or a talley. Have a great day. This is my first post. I hope it comes out ledgible

 

[midnightmech]

the same 25 posters are everywhere...lol....feels like 'family'

 

[jetjok1]

There is a forum ready to go but the basic problem is who should be allowed on? If the US Airways Pilots Association sponsors it, should non dues paying U pilots be allowed access? If so, what will keep it from sabotage or becoming a free-for-all?

My only comment is- WHO'S PAYING FOR IT

What if postings were used as retribution against pilots by other pilots?

Moderate, Issue warnings, Suspend, if necessary

Unfortunately, the good things that could come from having a forum are not possible right now.
For the time being, this board is "it" and what "it" is, is thanks to some level of anonymity here, the cyber equivalent of a game of "Whack-a-mole"

 

[nycbusdriver]

In the middle of the fray yesterday, I think many (including me) missed an important point in the post of the USAPA NC update.

USAPA has actually negotiated an enhancement to the west contract for Extended Leaves of Absence. The west now enjoys the same ability that the east has had allowing a pilot of anywhere on the seniority list to apply for a leave of absence with the option of coming back in three years during any period of furloughs.

It's nice that USAPA has secured this west contract enhancement for the 1700 non-payers of dues.

You're welcome, anyway.

 

[Piedmont1984]

In the middle of the fray yesterday, I think many (including me) missed an important point in the post of the USAPA NC update.

USAPA has actually negotiated an enhancement to the west contract for Extended Leaves of Absence. The west now enjoys the same ability that the east has had allowing a pilot of anywhere on the seniority list to apply for a leave of absence with the option of coming back in three years during any period of furloughs.

It's nice that USAPA has secured this west contract enhancement for the 1700 non-payers of dues.

You're welcome, anyway.

NiceLandingCaptain and Leonidas are thinking of something derogatory to post.

 

[Phoenix]

Leonidas Update for July 2, 2008
Leonidas LLC NewsDear AWA Pilots,

We know that it has been quiet lately on our website, but we would like to again assure you that this is solely out of strategic necessity. Great forward progress is being made in our legal campaign, and though that is not immediately evident, it will become so shortly.

We continue to build our case against the responsible parties, and are working diligently to forge the most robust possible complaints against those who have conspired in their attempts to destroy our careers. No stone is being left unturned and we will not fail to explore every available option fully. Do not believe that nothing can, or will be done to protect our careers. The truth is just the opposite.

Your patient support is appreciated as we work to finalize the details, even as more damning evidence becomes apparent on a daily basis.

Thanks,

ALPA... is that you?

 

[flynomore]

USAPA has actually negotiated an enhancement to the west contract for Extended Leaves of Absence. The west now enjoys the same ability that the east has had allowing a pilot of anywhere on the seniority list to apply for a leave of absence with the option of coming back in three years during any period of furloughs.

It's nice that USAPA has secured this west contract enhancement for the 1700 non-payers of dues.

You're welcome, anyway.

What would be more ironic is if this action actually "saved Dave".

 

[sharktooth]

Company baiting posters. What happens if the west refuses to pay dues oh wise and wonderful one? The abridged version please.

Saw right through him/her, too?

 

[nostradamus]

Well, at least some of the vitriol ceased and you started taking pride in your airline

It is always concerning when folks provide a public service such as you do but then decide to air their dirty laundry in public because it generally leads to public distrust of the company. It just weakens your bargaining position.

It is so easy to out maneuver people who are seething with anger while at the bargaining table!

A dear friend used to negotiate on behalf of the pilots of a major airline so I have some knowledge of the process in your profession.

I will re-consider my thinking on flying with U.S. Airways and, if I do choose your company, I hope the captain and first officer on my aircraft are the folks here who posted in reply that they want me in their aircraft, want me to have a totally routine flight (memorable for the service and ease as opposed to any mishap) and would welcome the chance to show their professionalism.

I think I'll buy stock in Rolaids - you folks must eat a lot of it! : )

Arrogant management loving poster! Your use of the word vitriol shows you are trying to prove your superiority.

Working for an airline is not a public service. Your sewer and water service is.

When you talk to your dear friend who used to negotiate on the behalf of pilots, it does not make you an expert. I talked to a dear friend about his constipation, it does not make me an expert on the subject.

Tell doug your little experiment did not work, dirty laundry to continue on this forum, he is the one soiling it.

 

[ladypassenger]

I do negotiation for a living and NOT for management. Don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about because you have no idea what I know and don't know. Long nights of discussion and debate can be a real learning experience when the discussion is between two people in the same line of work. Vitriol is not a management word and you do work for a company that provides a service to the public just like (oh, this will get you going) a city bus company. Now, I certainly don't compare airline pilots to a municipal bus driver - both have their problems and their responsibilities to the public but both provide a service.

I sincerely hope your company survives the current economic conditions and doesn't end up, as is widely predicted, in bankruptcy. After the previous bankruptcies, the next one may not be a CH 11. If that is the case, you won't have jobs and, probably, won't be able to get airline jobs because no one will be hiring. It won't matter if a well intentioned member of the flying public tried to tell you how you all sound and what the effect is on the potential passenger.

I also sincerely hope that the pretty extreme anger on this forum represents a few of the hundreds of pilots that work for your company and that the others have a more balanced and reasoned approach to your internal strifes. Some of the responses to my first post seem to reflect this.

Just always remember that it is those of us who fly who actually pay your salaries and the opinion we have of you as professionals is certainly part of our decision when we choose a company with which to fly.

Good luck to you all and I hope you have the ability to survive the current economic climate