US Pilots Labor Discussion 2/17- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Metroyet]

ALPA still uses Nicolau.

What does ALPA have to do with anything? Why are Easties OBSESSED with what ALPA is doing?

ALPA is as irrelevant to USAPA as the notions of good faith, integrity and honest dealings.

 

[EastUS]

Much like being the standard bearer of 'true unionism' and the carrying the 'gold standard' for seniority.

VNIIMN right??

My address was towards the rather inept "sales ptich" the west routinely offers by way of having yapping little puppies bravely and ferociously typing out that the east are "Cowards" when many out east have flown in real war, not to mention all those that've well endured all the sadly normal losses of loved ones over time, and all the other "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" that attend the human condition as one progresses through life. The west fantasy that it somehow requires great personal fortitude to hire lawyers and "talk tough" about some "Righteous Position" while seeking to usurp many years of others' work, magically equates to "Honor" or "Integrity".....nevermind; I won't even waste my time wiith the west regarding their apparent notons of what constitutes "courage".

Bottom Line = If you folks simply wish to continually evidence yourselves as complete fools...well..keep it up. You're hardly making any friends out east anyway, nor successfully garnering added semtiment towards any "Move Forward"...."Put out a contract and it will pass!" fantasies of yours ever coming true. Heck...in the personally traumatic wake of being such vile and despicable creatures that would deny you your nic lotto winnings...well...even us poor old, gray haired "Cowards" have some residual self respect

VNIIMN? = Count on it.

 

[EastUS]

The act of attempting to force one's will upon another, motivated to do so ONLY because the perpetrator is certain that the intended victims have no ability to fight back is an act of Cowardice.

Go ahead and defend that all you want.

No problem. "the intended victims have no ability to fight back"?..How is ANY this an actual "fight"? I've yet to see so much as one single casualty list. If we childishly indulge that this approaches a real fight on any level, as opposed to it being what it is = a labor squabble, even then; how do you assert that the west has "no ability to fight back"? It's been my honest impression for years now, ever since the nic was announced and the first west "Booyooshaka!"..."It's OVER..Get used to it"..."You won't even get 200 cards!".."Send the cards I DARE you!!"/etc, ad nauseum postings avalanched forth..that it was indeed the west's belief that the pathetic, aged, evil-easties had no ability to "fight" back...What am I missing here? :blink:

Whatever else is true....you folks might want to consider some remedial study with Dale Carnegie's "How to Make Friends and Influence People"

 

[EastUS]

Maybe so. In my 3 decades plus career in this industry, the FAA has revisited crew duty twice, I believe. And both time they made it worse and less safe, IMHO. Of course, the ATA simply loved it.

Maybe this time the FAA will ignore the usual ATA rants and actually take into account NTSB recommendations, the various crew fatigue research studies they themselves commissioned and other independent studies and make rules that put safety first!

Nah. Never happen. Crews will take it in the shorts again, and airline safety will be improved not one iota.

"the ATA simply loved it" Indeed.

One can always dream....I confess to having some very tiny hopes this time..but muct agree with the likelihood of "Nah. Never happen" based on everything we've actually seen over the years......

 

[EastUS]

You make alot of sense when we leave out the alpa, nic, usapa stuff. That about sums it up.

Absent the nic...we'd all likely get along well enough. That mess did none any favors.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

What does ALPA have to do with anything? Why are Easties OBSESSED with what ALPA is doing?

ALPA is as irrelevant to USAPA as the notions of good faith, integrity and honest dealings.

If they don't hammer at ALPA they have to point out alll their failures. Just that old boogey man in the closet. Unfortunately they seem to have their old ghosts turning into new nightmares....

 

[exB717Flyer]

Absent the nic...we'd all likely get along well enough. That mess did none any favors.

Oh, okay. You don't like Nicolau's decision so you make the West suffer. Makes perfect sense.

Oh, and as far as VNIIMN, I'm sure you'll understand why we don't believe a word an Eastie says. Prove it!

 

[EastUS]

Oh, okay. You don't like Nicolau's decision so you make the West suffer. Makes perfect sense.

Oh, and as far as VNIIMN, I'm sure you'll understand why we don't believe a word an Eastie says. Prove it!

1) Ah!..the good old west "Victim Card". Hmmm...is that the one's that properly only played after the "Then you can live on LOA93 FOREVER!!" card comes from the shoe....and has no effect?

2) I'm not much concerned with what you choose to believe. All I can state are my general observations and opinion as to how "the east" feels on that, plus offer my personal assurance that I'll never vote the nic abomination into existence....never, not no way, not no how. What you opt to do with the observations is entirely up to you. About that last voting bit; I do fully promise all out west that do have my personal Word, which again, you may dismiss or accept as you will...What you "believe" won't change anything.

 

[luvn737s]

You're hardly making any friends out east anyway

That's pretty sad. So the price of your friendship is my present and future career? Doesn't seem like a good value to me.

Run that past me again why the west pilots should use their careers to make whole the east pilots. That one has yet to make sense. Maybe a more verbose, condescending answer will help straighten us all out.

And I know of many west pilots who bravely served in wars, however they don't seem to wave that fact around as much as others. They're pretty secure with themselves.

 

[EastUS]

That's pretty sad. So the price of your friendship is my present and future career? Doesn't seem like a good value to me.

Run that past me again why the west pilots should use their careers to make whole the east pilots. That one has yet to make sense. Maybe a more verbose, condescending answer will help straighten us all out.

And I know of many west pilots who bravely served in wars, however they don't seem to wave that fact around as much as others. They're pretty secure with themselves.

1) Nope. I've no interest in either your career nor becoming great friends, so there's no cost attatched.

2) No need really. The postions are drawn, and unless the west can actually find a way to literally force the nic into being...you're just outta' luck.

3) "They're pretty secure with themselves" I'm sure they are...and hardly need you to speak for them, nor likely much appreciate your feeling so free to do so. You'll perhaps be so kind as to notice that I've never called those of yours who've served "Cowards"...I can't reasonably assign the term "Coward" to your group as a whole. I'm sure you've many fine and decent people. 1700's far too great a number for them all, or even most, to be perpetual adolescents.....What's your point?

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

My address was towards the rather inept "sales ptich" the west routinely offers by way of having yapping little puppies bravely and ferociously typing out that the east are "Cowards" when many out east have flown in real war, not to mention all those that've well endured all the sadly normal losses of loved ones over time, and all the other "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" that attend the human condition as one progresses through life. The west fantasy that it somehow requires great personal fortitude to hire lawyers and "talk tough" about some "Righteous Position" while seeking to usurp many years of others' work, magically equates to "Honor" or "Integrity".....nevermind; I won't even waste my time wiith the west regarding their apparent notons of what constitutes "courage".

Bottom Line = If you folks simply wish to continually evidence yourselves as complete fools...well..keep it up. You're hardly making any friends out east anyway, nor successfully garnering added semtiment towards any "Move Forward"...."Put out a contract and it will pass!" fantasies of yours ever coming true. Heck...in the personally traumatic wake of being such vile and despicable creatures that would deny you your nic lotto winnings...well...even us poor old, gray haired "Cowards" have some residual self respect

VNIIMN? = Count on it.

At least have the intestinal fortitude to provide something to VNIIMN. Your delay tactic has become tiresome.

And we have corner the market on bravado? Mr Seham has proven your own case, so far the court system has proven your stance wrong. If the 9th had any thought of overturning Wake's ruling wouldn't a stay have been issued? Your continuing blathering the 'gold standard' and 'true unionism' mantra has done more harm than good for you.

The Nic a lotto win?? What about the furloughee walking back into the captains seat, not a lottery win? Slotting someone with years of furlough time under their belt next to someone with NO furlough time not a lottery win?

Go ahead, blather on, the stage is all yours.

 

[CallawayGolf]

No problem. "the intended victims have no ability to fight back"?..How is ANY this an actual "fight"? I've yet to see so much as one single casualty list. If we childishly indulge that this approaches a real fight on any level, as opposed to it being what it is = a labor squabble, even then; how do you assert that the west has "no ability to fight back"? It's been my honest impression for years now, ever since the nic was announced and the first west "Booyooshaka!"..."It's OVER..Get used to it"..."You won't even get 200 cards!".."Send the cards I DARE you!!"/etc, ad nauseum postings avalanched forth..that it was indeed the west's belief that the pathetic, aged, evil-easties had no ability to "fight" back...What am I missing here? :blink:

Whatever else is true....you folks might want to consider some remedial study with Dale Carnegie's "How to Make Friends and Influence People"

Perhaps you could take your own advice on this one before suggesting it to others. Here's a good summary from Part Three:
Win people to your way of thinking
1. The only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it.
2. Show respect for the other person's opinions. Never say, "You're wrong."
3. If you are wrong, admit it quickly and emphatically.
4. Begin in a friendly way.
5. Get the other person saying "yes, yes" immediately.
6. Let the other person do a great deal of the talking.
7. Let the other person feel that the idea is his or hers.
8. Try honestly to see things from the other person's point of view.
9. Be sympathetic with the other person's ideas and desires.
10. Appeal to the nobler motives.
11. Dramatize your ideas.
12. Throw down a challenge.

Oh and I also like #3 from Part Four:
Talk about your own mistakes before criticizing the other person.

I'm sure all the friends you have won on the west will affirm that you not only understand the principles of Mr. Carnegie's book, but that you also make a point to practice them at every opportunity.

 

[N924PS]

Absent the nic...we'd all likely get along well enough. That mess did none any favors.

It appears the USAPA holding action has finally paid off for you and Steve Bradford.

Congratulations on your PHL A320 Captain Bid. Results just came out on Wings.

 

[Al Legheny]

It appears the USAPA holding action has finally paid off for you and Steve Bradford.

Congratulations on your PHL A320 Captain Bid. Results just came out on Wings.

A Look at this Bid is enough to see that there is no savings to be had here. If cash savings was what the company was looking for there would be no need to close BOS. This bid is going to generate a tremendous amount of training float. All non productive time.

Who knows how many homes will have to be bought. All the BOS pilots had displacement rights so there are many N (New) and DN (Displaced New) notes on this bid. The cost savings is far out, years probably.

This is just a move to make US Airways look good for a merger.

 

[Pi brat]

It appears the USAPA holding action has finally paid off for you and Steve Bradford.

Congratulations on your PHL A320 Captain Bid. Results just came out on Wings.

Those that think they know who you are will be disappointed you didn't take the early out......... ;-)