US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/29-10/7

[traderjake]

Mixing east and west will either improve CRM and enhance safety, have a neutral effect on CRM and safety, or it will inevitably result in the scenario I am concerned about.

Did allowing pilots to fly past age 60 enhance safety or have a neutral effect?

No. It degrades safety or why else are older pilots prohibited from flying international together.

They did it anyway.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

The list of things which this management didn't envision is staggering.

In all fairness, I don't think many people saw how many dirty tricks the east pilots could pull out of their hats simply because they could, due to their larger numbers and the nmb single class and craft ruling. It won't be any time soon, but your window is narrowing, you will be responsible for your actions at some point in time.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Except George Nicolau did not fence that attrition.

So if the East's appeals fail, that attrition belongs to USAirways pilots. And the West pilots are now USAirways pilots represented by USAPA. And USAPA, by law, must abide by the Nicolau Award in ANY contract negotiations.

That's right, we are all usapa. Just as some east pilots were gleefully pointing out, at least back when they thought the experiment was going to work.

 

[nic4us]

The west pilot's have been salivating over these jobs for some time now - hence all of the heartache out there thinly disguised as "Integrity".

I seriously doubt this theft of jobs that the west pilots think is coming to them will go as they expect.

Actually, the West was not salivating, we were vomiting, and for good reason. East attrition could not surpass east reduction, hence you had 1800 furloughs, and about to be a far greater number.

the east, via usapa, attempted to steal jobs that belong to the West. usapa has been somewhat successful in taking West jobs so far, however, that is all going to end soon. Perhaps an appropriate reparatrions price tag will be levied against usapa for their theft during the damages trial, or maybe those wiser than me will rid us of this association of scoundrels, but in any event, a usapa supporter commenting on "Integrity" is laughable.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Did allowing pilots to fly past age 60 enhance safety or have a neutral effect?

No. It degrades safety or why else are older pilots prohibited from flying international together.

They did it anyway.

If two older pilots posed a safety concern for some, flying with a younger pilot was the solution. The effect on safety - neutral to positive. Remember the rationale for extending the age sixty rule to begin with.

How do we resolve the animus between you and I when we shut the cockpit door behind us?

I know what you think of me and vice versa. Effect on safety - negative.

 

[Piedmont1984]

In all fairness, I don't think many people saw how many dirty tricks the east pilots could pull out of their hats simply because they could, due to their larger numbers and the nmb single class and craft ruling. It won't be any time soon, but your window is narrowing, you will be responsible for your actions at some point in time.

If the Ninth Circuit upholds our appeal in any way. Even if only one or two of the several motions or arguments USAPA has filed are ruled on favorably - then it wasn't a dirty trick to begin with.

 

[N924PS]

If two older pilots posed a safety concern for some, flying with a younger pilot was the solution. The effect on safety - neutral to positive. Remember the rationale for extending the age sixty rule to begin with.

How do we resolve the animus between you and I when we shut the cockpit door behind us?

I know what you think of me and vice versa. Effect on safety - negative.

You don't even know each other yet. You might be meeting your next best friend.

Face to face is different than an internet web board. You've got to let it go if they win ultimately. Life is too short to let "animus" fester and control your life in the workplace.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Join the new majority. Unseat the uninformed and save us all a bunch of money (read..fines and damages), and co-seat PHL, CLT, PHX, LAS, LGA, BOS & DCA in the Presidency, Vice-Presidency, Treasurer, et al. Refine the committees to reflect a proportional east/west mix. Move the headquarters to the city of the airline home office, and a NEGOTIATE A JOINT CONTRACT AS ONE BODY!!

PHX Domicile meeting:
The meeting will take place on Wednesday, October 28, at the DoubleTree Guest Suites Phoenix-Gateway Center located at 320 North 44th St., Phoenix, at the corner of 44th Street and Van Buren. The meeting will start promptly at 11 am until 3 pm.

Go for it 'majority' start the process in only 16 days.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

If the Ninth Circuit upholds our appeal in any way. Even if only one or two of the several motions or arguments USAPA has filed are ruled on favorably - then it wasn't a dirty trick to begin with.

I suppose. I think that is about as likely as me making an NFL team.

 

[boeingplt]

I suppose. I think that is about as likely as me making an NFL team.

The Raiders would probably take you!

 

[cleardirect]

If the Ninth Circuit upholds our appeal in any way. Even if only one or two of the several motions or arguments USAPA has filed are ruled on favorably - then it wasn't a dirty trick to begin with.

I don't think that you understand the process.

usapa (Seham) flung all the mud at the wall he could hoping for something.

Ripeness is the first. That does not stop this it only delays it. Not likley.

The judge make errors of law. Again not likely but that only sends it back to judge Wake for another trial. Want to guess the outcome.

The most likley outcome is uphold the injunction.

The best usapa can hope for is another trial. That is it.

Take the time to read judge Wakes finding of facts and conclusion of law. It will answer any questions about ripeness and other thing.

The response should be out on the 26th.

Do not be surprised if Seham appeal sounds lame and silly after reading the response.

 

[Phoenix]

If the Ninth Circuit upholds our appeal in any way. Even if only one or two of the several motions or arguments USAPA has filed are ruled on favorably - then it wasn't a dirty trick to begin with.

Whoaa. Don't buy into the "dirty trick" accusations under any circumstance of the Ninth's rulings. Everyone is availing themselves of legal, legitimate options they are entitled to. If anyone wants to begrudge others of any available process they are entitled to then how can they claim to be any different from the manipulators the majority voted out?

We never called the West "dirty tricksters" just because they went to court. They should spend as much money as they want to keep fighting for Nic, before any judge and appeals court they can get to hear their case. They should keep their eye on the prize. More power to them.

Its all above board. Out in the open. All legal. Whoever would deny another's right to avail oneself of legal processes is perhaps just selfishly impatient. If they accuse you of "dirty tricks" they are just lashing out with frustration that they don't have their way.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Whoaa. Don't buy into the "dirty trick" accusations under any circumstance of the Ninth's rulings. Everyone is availing themselves of legal, legitimate options they are entitled to. If anyone wants to begrudge others of any available process they are entitled to then how can they claim to be any different from the manipulators the majority voted out?

We never called the West "dirty tricksters" just because they went to court. They should spend as much money as they want to keep fighting for Nic, before any judge and appeals court they can get to hear their case. They should keep their eye on the prize. More power to them.

Its all above board. Out in the open. All legal. Whoever would deny another's right to avail oneself of legal processes is perhaps just selfishly impatient. If they accuse you of "dirty tricks" they are just lashing out with frustration that they don't have their way.

Read Judge Wake's findings of fact. Plenty of dirty tricks exposed. You guys had the numbers, that's all. We stood up for ourselves, and thus far have been vidicated. Your window is closing.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

If two older pilots posed a safety concern for some, flying with a younger pilot was the solution. The effect on safety - neutral to positive. Remember the rationale for extending the age sixty rule to begin with.

How do we resolve the animus between you and I when we shut the cockpit door behind us?

I know what you think of me and vice versa. Effect on safety - negative.

Hypothetically speaking. If the ninth overturns the verdict entirely and usapa gets us a new contract complete with date of hire, will you still be as worried about what we think of each other?

 

[hp_fa]

If the Ninth Circuit upholds our appeal in any way. Even if only one or two of the several motions or arguments USAPA has filed are ruled on favorably - then it wasn't a dirty trick to begin with.

There can be a reversal for reasons that have nothing to do with the facts. Therefore USAPA could win the appeal without it being decided one way or the other regarding any "dirty trick." If that happens it goes back to Judge Wake for re-hearing.

The odds of the 9th Circuit reversing and remanding with instructions to dismiss the plaintiffs' case are about the same as the odds that the Sun will rise in the western sky tomorrow. My point is that a reversal does not have to have anything to do with the facts, just the procedure utilized by Judge Wake.