US Pilots Labor Discussion

[traderjake]

[/quote]

tell me something dude....how many west pilots hired after you are senior to you on the nic list

nicdoa

npjb
[/quote]

I don't know and I don't care because longivity is not seniority, dude.

Seniority is your position on a seniority list, that's why it's called a seniority number.

If you were the last pilot hired for ten years are you any more senior at year ten than year one?

The answer is no, you are no more senior after ten years with the company than you were at year one.

You are still the junior pilot at the airline after ten years

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

[/quote]

I don't know and I don't care because longivity is not seniority, dude.
[/quote]



It is what a union says it is. What is seniority but an artificial construct designed by unions? The non-union private sector operates by meritocracy.

 

[traderjake]

It is what a union says it is. What is seniority but an artificial construct designed by unions? The non-union private sector operates by meritocracy.

Even a union has to operate within the law and can not artificially rewrite an arbitration award to benefit the majority at the expense of the miniority.

 

[GorgeousGeorge]

Even a union has to operate within the law and can not artificially rewrite an arbitration award to benefit the majority at the expense of the miniority.

It wasn't an arbitration required by law, nor it was it an arbitration conducted by judicial directive. It was a means a union used to establish a seniority proposal to ingrate two lists and adopt an integrated one into a single contract. ALPA produced a result under its own policies and adopted it as its bargaining position as required by its constitution. Until the situation is legally resolved, ALPA's list only exists as a proposal adopted under its own policy. It has no weight unless a court directs that it must be USAPA's seniority proposal. As it stands now that is not the case and there is no court directing or requiring USAPA to use any specific proposal. That may or may not change. It very well may turn out that nothing changes and USAPA remains free as it currently is to present its own seniority proposal.

 

[traderjake]

The current contract says it is the seniority list and until we have another contract with a different list (assuming the courts allow that to happen) it remains the integrated seniority list.

You're wrong.

 

[mrbreeze]

The current contract says it is the seniority list and until we have another contract with a different list (assuming the courts allow that to happen) it remains the integrated seniority list.

You're wrong.

I sure wish you guys would get off this idea that "the NIC is the only accepted list". If you look back about 3-4 months ago on the crew news, Parker explains that, yes they accepted the NIC, but the situation changed and the new pilot union has presented the DOH list. At that point management put everything on hold until the courts give some direction to the company.

Hearing your pipe dream really gets old......ya know, broken BS record.

Please stick to the facts.

 

[fodase]

I sure wish you guys would get off this idea that "the NIC is the only accepted list". If you look back about 3-4 months ago on the crew news, Parker explains that, yes they accepted the NIC, but the situation changed and the new pilot union has presented the DOH list. At that point management put everything on hold until the courts give some direction to the company.

Hearing your pipe dream really gets old......ya know, broken BS record.

Please stick to the facts.

LOL, so which is the other accepted list? Clown

 

[mrbreeze]

LOL, so which is the other accepted list? Clown

Still need that ### whoopin', eh? It will catch up to you someday....always does for a smart ###.

 

[mrbreeze]

Fodase, if you want to discuss issues, no problem......but I will not respond to your childish name calling......we can all take that lower road and act like 7th graders, but it doesn't get us anywhere.

 

[fodase]

Fodase, if you want to discuss issues, no problem......but I will not respond to your childish name calling......we can all take that lower road and act like 7th graders, but it doesn't get us anywhere.

Ok, what is the other accepted seniority list by lcc?

 

[mrbreeze]

Ok, what is the other accepted seniority list by lcc?

As I stated above.....when ALPA was replaced, the company put everything on hold, awaiting legal guidance. Therefore, your argument about NIC being the only accepted list doesn't hold water......not because DOH was rejected by the company, but because things stopped at that point.

Parker has stated that in one of the PHX videos a few months back. That is why they want the DJ.....legal guidance on whether to use the NIC or DOH.

 

[fodase]

As I stated above.....when ALPA was replaced, the company put everything on hold, awaiting legal guidance. Therefore, your argument about NIC being the only accepted list doesn't hold water......not because DOH was rejected by the company, but because things stopped at that point.

Parker has stated that in one of the PHX videos a few months back. That is why they want the DJ.....legal guidance on whether to use the NIC or DOH.

Your contradicting yourself, there is only one accepted seniority list and that list is the nicolau. The companies attorneys testified to this fact in Adington and if you read the dj filing the company again says they have accepted the nicolau as required by the ta. Dougs comment was in the context that a new union now wants to change the contract. Please read the ta, the single seniority list portion of this merger was finished when lcc payed both mecs $300k and it only awaits a ratified contract to be in effect. Now usapa wants to renegotiate that completed portion of the ta but management is concerned because what usapa proposes is illegal. And btw it's illegal with case law to back it up, and as much as you guys wish it weren't so, the Nic. was complete and accepted in writing by lcc before usapa took over.

 

[nevergiveup]

Your contradicting yourself, there is only one accepted seniority list and that list is the nicolau. The companies attorneys testified to this fact in Adington and if you read the dj filing the company again says they have accepted the nicolau as required by the ta. Dougs comment was in the context that a new union now wants to change the contract. Please read the ta, the single seniority list portion of this merger was finished when lcc payed both mecs $300k and it only awaits a ratified contract to be in effect. Now usapa wants to renegotiate that completed portion of the ta but management is concerned because what usapa proposes is illegal. And btw it's illegal with case law to back it up, and as much as you guys wish it weren't so, the Nic. was complete and accepted in writing by lcc before usapa took over.

So if the Nic is declared invalid will Leo give you your money back?

 

[cactusboy53]

So if the Nic is declared invalid will Leo give you your money back?

Sure! Just like when the Nicolau is clearly stated to be the only seniority list, you can ask USAPA for a refund......Ooops, sorry about that. It appears that Cleary & Co. have already emptied out the coffers. Better luck next time.

The money spent on defending our seniority rights to a legally binding process has been well spent. Three years without the DOH cram-down? PRICELESS.

Want that raise? Parker has told you time and time again that the raise comes with a new contract. Your AAA MEC PULLED out of a nearly COMPLETE contract negotiation. THREE YEARS LATER.....6 sections of 30 done.....wait for it.......USAPA is holding contract & picket events????!!!!!?????

Parker said just two weeks ago that the "Kirby Proposal" was still on the table. That means NB Captains SHOOT to $147 or so an hour, FULL pay for DH & MECH, up to a MONTH paid vacation, a better Short Term Disability (vs. Mondo Sick Bank), and other benefits. Imagine if we could get that additional 7-8% (or more?) on top of the Kirby that the company TESTIFIED to in the Addington trial. Cleary & Mowrey WALKED away from a VERY GENEROUS proposal during the UAL/LCC possible merge (DAL wages +?????). Water under the bridge & money out of your pocket.

You decide. Sit and "hope for change", or get involved: www.reformusapa.com. Go to the petitions section & read the three that are there. Even if you don't agree with the Nicolau, the other two are worthy of your support.

 

[CactusPilot1]

Sure! Just like when the Nicolau is clearly stated to be the only seniority list, you can ask USAPA for a refund......Ooops, sorry about that. It appears that Cleary & Co. have already emptied out the coffers. Better luck next time.

The money spent on defending our seniority rights to a legally binding process has been well spent. Three years without the DOH cram-down? PRICELESS.

If it were not for EF putting up over $30K of his own money to start a defense fund, the ochlocracy known as USAPA would have cashed the DOH lottery ticket three years ago. I
got a good laugh about the recent filing in Denton, TX. Eric did not even show up in court
whch tells me he's not at all concerned about another one of Lee's wild goose chase which Cleary blindly follows. Addressgate is a dead issue and he knows it. The persuit of EF is nothing more than an attempt to harrass a West pilot for standing up to a mob.

We now have the unity to continue our defense whether the name is Leonidas, AWAPPA or whatever. So, if you think you have EF on the ropes, he is just one of more than 1600 who have the same determination to defend their careers at all costs.

Keep filing those lawsuits, you might as well forget about the war chest.

Douggie thanks you.